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Moiraine

Will our democracy survive Trump?

Will our Democracy survive Trump?  

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Trump just fired Sessions and his temporary replacement is now overseeing the Russian investigation which includes looking into Trump's own potential obstruction of justice.

At the very least this shows everyone on earth how to operate once in power if you get elected president and have done something wrong (including something that led to you getting elected president in the first place). Even if Trump did nothing at all wrong other than trying to stop the investigation, everyone knows how they can do something wrong and get away with it.

On top of that his label and treatment of the media as the enemy of the people is extremely dangerous for democracy. There are people I've known for years who in the span of the past 2-3 years have decided legitimate news sources are like the National Enquirer for liberals. People who think this isn't a big deal don't understand how important it has to have a free press that isn't demonized for no good reason.


I don't think Trump will stage a coup although I'd say there's a 15% chance of it if he loses the election in 2020. But in the long term I think his presidency will do lasting damage unless there is a major restructuring of power that prevents what's happening from ever happening again. They need to make some laws with this presidency in mind in the future or we are screwed, imo. And not then turn around and get rid of them 10 years later.

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I was just thinking that the biggest damage the Trump era has caused is that it has seemingly shown and taught those in power that they can more or less do whatever they want and get away with it. Blatantly lie? Go for it. Rig elections and/or suppress votes or gerrymander the hell out of the districts so only your team has a chance of winning? Sure, why not. Constantly deceive and mislead the public? You got it. Be openly hostile to minorities and women? Hell yeah nobody is gonna stop you.

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R.E.L.A.X.

 

This Republic will survive Trump just fine. It's bigger than one person. The question is will it survive itself? This country is the people, and if they are indifferent to corruption and malevolence it can not last. We have checks and balances, but all that is needed is for this country to crumble is for good men and women to do nothing. We're not there yet, people are speaking up and speaking out. The sky isn't falling fam. Just take a break from the news for a little bit.

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there are laws that are suppose to protect us from trump...but he has enough complicit repubs in the government going along with him and the power of a right wing media that spreads propaganda that portrays anyone not in trumps camp as "evil liberals".

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Wish I could choose more than one, cuz I think short term no(ish) and long term yes.   It's going to get worse before it gets better unfortunately.

 

All this Acosta bs is just a distraction from loss of the house, and firing of Sessions.  We need to be on high alert.

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1 hour ago, ZRod said:

R.E.L.A.X.

 

 

Just take a break from the news for a little bit.

 

 

For the record, this is pretty obnoxious.

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1 hour ago, ZRod said:

R.E.L.A.X.

 

This Republican will survive Trump just fine. It's bigger than one person. The question is will it survive itself? This country is the people, and if they are indifferent to corruption and malevolence it can not last. We have checks and balances, but all that is needed is for this country to crumble is for good men and women to do nothing. We're not there yet, people are speaking up and speaking out. The sky isn't falling fam. Just take a break from the news for a little bit.

Amen...

 

Like Frankie said...Relax

 

 

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He shouldn't be calling the press the enemy of the people and defending it, after violence against journalists, by saying it's the only way he can fight back.  I get that some want to use a very narrow definition of treason but it seems likely DJT, at the very least, abetted it by not reporting what he knew about his people cooperating with foreigners to meddle in American elections.  I get that federal investigations take a long time and this is a very complicated one but it baffles me that we don't have certain laws.  E.g., if there's suspicion you gained the presidency by criminal means, you shouldn't be able to wield the power of that office until it's clear you're not compromised (e.g., beholden to a foreign power hostile to our nation).  As Dave Chappelle said, "The stakes are too high in the White House!"

 

Getting away from Trump, I agree with those who are saying this isn't all about him.  We need to focus on what we all need and that's a government that will work for its citizens.  It's too corrupt now and has been for a long time.  "Money is speech" would fit in just fine alongside Orwell's famous ironies.  People who read 1984 surely remember how it had endless war without any clear reason.  Growing up in the eighties, I remember adults assuring us kids there would never be a nuclear war.  Our kids today are asking the same questions we did.  Sorry for the rambling but I didn't want to make just one flip comment about one party and check out of this forum.

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We'll survive.  This isn't  1860-69 -  we've survived worse.  It isn't Teapot Dome.   It isn't the horrible 1960s and esp 1968.  The nation was horribly divided and hurting after the assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK.  It is comparable to the Watergate era.  We made it through Watergate and we will again make it through Watergate 3.0.  (Bill Clinton being 2.0)

 

Trump has had a negative affect on the political discussion in our time not to mention the possible violations of law (yet to be determined). With that said, our political discussion has become more negative over the years with the increase of various types of media available to promote political debate including places like our very own HB. All of the media access has increase the 'outrage' and Trump has tapped into the outrage on the right, wrapped himself in it and has become it's spokesperson and used it to promote himself and his agenda.

Sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail and we'll see the emotional volume moderate.  We all know that this won't occur while Trump is president as Trump thrives on strife, disunity, and setting up and attacking boogeymen  wherever they can be found and whenever they can be used for his purposes.

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3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

For the record, this is pretty obnoxious.

For the record I don't really care. It's sound advice, that I've taken before myself. It's not hard to get fatigued and depressed with what's going on right now. A knee jerk thread about will our country survive a bafoon, seems like a good signal that maybe we could all use a little break...

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3 hours ago, ZRod said:

This country is the people, and if they are indifferent to corruption and malevolence it can not last. We have checks and balances, but all that is needed is for this country to crumble is for good men and women to do nothing.

This is why I think our democracy won't survive long-term. We've become indifferent to corruption and lies from our political leaders. Trump is just open about it. Hillary wouldn't have broken as many norms, but we'd still continue losing our power to the wealthy. Trump is speeding things along toward authoritarianism, and we should fight against that every step of the way, but I'm not optimistic we can win.

 

The only question in my mind is whether we'll accept the oligarchy and lose our democracy or if we'll have civil unrest or (hopefully not) civil war. Either way, I think we're screwed.

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1 hour ago, ZRod said:

For the record I don't really care. It's sound advice, that I've taken before myself. It's not hard to get fatigued and depressed with what's going on right now. A knee jerk thread about will our country survive a bafoon, seems like a good signal that maybe we could all use a little break...

 

 

You have no idea how relaxed or otherwise I am, nor whether my state of relaxation or non relaxation is called for. Your comment was patronizing. I haven’t even answered the poll yet. It’s possible to make a post just to get a conversation going. I think democracy here is in danger over the long term due in part to Trump although it did not start with him.

 

This isn’t a “knee jerk” thread. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. Actually, I’ve been wondering about our democracy’s long-term survival since before Trump for other reasons. But he has shown so far that our checks and balances seem to be really weak and we’re setting really dangerous precedents for future leader(s). If you want to think it’s not a big deal that’s fine.

 

A big problem in our country now is people think we are invulnerable from the possibility of the subject of this topic happening. That is part of why many Republicans are willing to overlook what Trump is doing. They don’t think it’sa big deal and think it can’t get to the point I’m talking to, but things don’t collapse in an instant, they erode over time.

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We’ll survive, but there will be a time when a lot of republicans will look back at this era and either not want to talk about it or act like they don’t remember. 

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12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

We’ll survive, but there will be a time when a lot of republicans will look back at this era and either not want to talk about it or act like they don’t remember. 

 

 

Or they’ll forget and do it again.

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There are still enough checks and balances in place to keep Trump from totally running wild with his agenda, so i think well survive him just fine. The bigger problem to me is the unfortunately large amount of people who support him. If we get to the point where the majority blindly follow and support people like Trump we are screwed. I don't think we are to that point though, and i think people will turn out in droves to get rid of this guy in 2020.  

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If we could survive the divisive Obama years where the racial divide grew with his anti cop BLM rhetoric we will survive the Trump years too. 

 

The bigger question is will we survive the Resist movement that involves Resisting Trump at all costs and turning a blind eye to policies to help out the American people.

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9 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

There are still enough checks and balances in place to keep Trump from totally running wild with his agenda, so i think well survive him just fine. The bigger problem to me is the unfortunately large amount of people who support him. If we get to the point where the majority blindly follow and support people like Trump we are screwed. I don't think we are to that point though, and i think people will turn out in droves to get rid of this guy in 2020.  

fox news (or more accurately...fox opinion shows, not their real news with shep and others) and rush are doing their best to convince americans that everyone who disagrees with trump on any matter is an angry violent liberal who hates america......AND ITS WORKING!

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3 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

If we could survive the divisive Obama years where the racial divide grew with his anti cop BLM rhetoric we will survive the Trump years too. 

 

The bigger question is will we survive the Resist movement that involves Resisting Trump at all costs and turning a blind eye to policies to help out the  American people.

yes....angry white supremacist certainly didn't feel welcome in obamas america.  so you are right about the growing racial divide.  and trump is helping corporations much more than he is helping the american people.   when his massive debt comes crashing in on us we will be hurting

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

You have no idea how relaxed or otherwise I am, nor whether my state of relaxation or non relaxation is called for. Your comment was patronizing. I haven’t even answered the poll yet. It’s possible to make a post just to get a conversation going. I think democracy here is in danger over the long term due in part to Trump although it did not start with him.

 

This isn’t a “knee jerk” thread. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. Actually, I’ve been wondering about our democracy’s long-term survival since before Trump for other reasons. But he has shown so far that our checks and balances seem to be really weak and we’re setting really dangerous precedents for future leader(s). If you want to think it’s not a big deal that’s fine.

 

A big problem in our country now is people think we are invulnerable from the possibility of the subject of this topic happening. That is part of why many Republicans are willing to overlook what Trump is doing. They don’t think it’sa big deal and think it can’t get to the point I’m talking to, but things don’t collapse in an instant, they erode over time.

My comment is my observation and I stand by it despite however you interpret it. You created a "The sky is falling" type thread about Trump. I see that as a little over dramatic. There are checks and balances built intonour government. There is an ongoing investigation, and there are next steps and processes that we haven't even gotten to yet. We'll be fine.

 

Has Trump exposed some serious issue with our system? Hell yes! But it's nothing some small changes can't fix. If we can sit down and have an honest discussion as a nation, demanding our leaders learn from these lessons and make legislative changes we'll be just fine. Even without those changes we'll be ok. What we can not survive is the type of rhetoric that comes from our three amigos in P&R, and the blind loyalty that results.

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34 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

If we could survive the divisive Obama years where the racial divide grew with his anti cop BLM rhetoric we will survive the Trump years too. 

 

 

stewart-basketball-reaction.gif?w=600&h=

 

 

 

Please stop this. I have given you dozens of sources of Obama defending and supporting police officers, and also condemning violence and riots, and also encouraging communication and cooperation. You seem content to ignore them. Why don't you want to actually live in reality? Please stop doing this. Please stop lying. 

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

You have no idea how relaxed or otherwise I am, nor whether my state of relaxation or non relaxation is called for. Your comment was patronizing. I haven’t even answered the poll yet. It’s possible to make a post just to get a conversation going. I think democracy here is in danger over the long term due in part to Trump although it did not start with him.

 

This isn’t a “knee jerk” thread. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. Actually, I’ve been wondering about our democracy’s long-term survival since before Trump for other reasons. But he has shown so far that our checks and balances seem to be really weak and we’re setting really dangerous precedents for future leader(s). If you want to think it’s not a big deal that’s fine.

 

A big problem in our country now is people think we are invulnerable from the possibility of the subject of this topic happening. That is part of why many Republicans are willing to overlook what Trump is doing. They don’t think it’sa big deal and think it can’t get to the point I’m talking to, but things don’t collapse in an instant, they erode over time.

It is funny you said this because I have always thought that saying "relax" to someone is one of the most triggering things that you can say.  People get so pissed when they are told to "relax"

 

People get super offended over it.

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1 minute ago, teachercd said:

It is funny you said this because I have always thought that saying "relax" to someone is one of the most triggering things that you can say.  People get so pissed when they are told to "relax"

 

People get super offended over it.

 

 

shut up you

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10 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

shut up you

It's true though! The best way to get yelled at by a GF is to tell her to relax or calm down. I should have thought about that lol. My B.

 

Still nott he end of our country though.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 I think democracy here is in danger over the long term due in part to Trump although it did not start with him.

 

This isn’t a “knee jerk” thread. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. Actually, I’ve been wondering about our democracy’s long-term survival since before Trump for other reasons. But he has shown so far that our checks and balances seem to be really weak and we’re setting really dangerous precedents for future leader(s). If you want to think it’s not a big deal that’s fine.

 

A big problem in our country now is people think we are invulnerable from the possibility of the subject of this topic happening. That is part of why many Republicans are willing to overlook what Trump is doing. They don’t think it’sa big deal and think it can’t get to the point I’m talking to, but things don’t collapse in an instant, they erode over time.

 

Actually I think you may have a good point. I might be inclined to change my original answer. Not necessarily that Trump is responsible per se, but yes he would be contributing to what could be considered the inevitable demise. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t we have the longest running democracy and isn’t it widely thought this form of government is not sustainable forever?

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Just now, JJ Husker said:

isn’t it widely thought this form of government is not sustainable forever? 

 

I'm not sure about the first question in this sentence, but this part I know is correct.

 

One of the greatest democracies of all time, the Roman Republic, fell into a dictatorship after 400 years of rule by the people.  And Rome still prospered for a few hundred years after that.

 

Funny thing about the end of the Republic. There were a group of very conservative legislators, the Optimates or "good men," who staunchly refused to allow changes to Roman society. By ~100 BC the entire Italian peninsula was basically Roman, but people outside Rome and the traditional territories were mostly shut out of the citizenship, which made them just above slaves in the eyes of true Romans. They chafed at it, and fought a couple of wars (which Rome won, but at great cost) over the citizenship.  Politics were pretty chaotic at this time, and into that chaos stepped the Optimates, and they were a strong voting bloc that prevented reform.  And that reform was needed, badly. 

 

During this chaos Rome fought more than a dozen wars, some civil wars where the Republic was essentially overthrown (Sulla & Marius) and some external wars (the Galic Wars & the Servile Wars, among many others) which Rome won.  Through all the chaos the Optimates solidified power, until they were basically entrenched, able to enrich themselves, purge their political opponents, and basically suffer zero consequences.

 

Into that chaos stepped a historically amazing figure, a genius, and a brilliant general, politician and lawyer.  Julius Caesar took on the Optimates, and through his brilliance and charisma he overthrew the Roman state. 

 

 

We're in a reasonably analogous period to that portion of the Roman Republic right now.  We see that people really aren't that beholden to Democracy, and that they're willing to follow a strong leader - and let that leader trample on our democracy if it suits them. 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, ZRod said:

It's true though! The best way to get yelled at by a GF is to tell her to relax or calm down. I should have thought about that lol. My B.

 

Still nott he end of our country though.

I said it once in a meeting...good lord you would have thought I killed someone.

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2 hours ago, commando said:

yes....angry white supremacist certainly didn't feel welcome in obamas america.  so you are right about the growing racial divide.  and trump is helping corporations much more than he is helping the american people.   when his massive debt comes crashing in on us we will be hurting

 

Lol back to pushing this white supremacist narrative. In the words of Landlord, please stop lying.

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2 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Lol back to pushing this white supremacist narrative. In the words of Landlord, please stop lying.

so you are saying white supremacists did feel welcome in obamas america?   thanks for letting me know.   

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2 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

stewart-basketball-reaction.gif?w=600&h=

 

 

 

Please stop this. I have given you dozens of sources of Obama defending and supporting police officers, and also condemning violence and riots, and also encouraging communication and cooperation. You seem content to ignore them. Why don't you want to actually live in reality? Please stop doing this. Please stop lying. 

 

Stop ignoring the sourced and examples I provided too. Obama used identity politics pitting groups against each other for his political gain. His administration helped fuel the fires that burned in Ferguson. There are countless examples where he made the wrong choice and judgment.  He left the country more divided along racial lines than when he took over. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1254935002

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3 minutes ago, commando said:

so you are saying white supremacists did feel welcome in obamas america?   thanks for letting me know.   

 

Nope...just pushing back on your excuses for the reality that Obama was a divisive figure and not the unifying figure some on here seem.to think he is. He was and still is a bitter partisan who wanted to win at all costs. 

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7 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Nope...just pushing back on your excuses for the reality that Obama was a divisive figure and not the unifying figure some on here seem.to think he is. He was and still is a bitter partisan who wanted to win at all costs. 

thank god trump is uniting everyone.   

 

White-supremecists-as-rx-01-170815.jpg

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3 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Lol back to pushing this white supremacist narrative. In the words of Landlord, please stop lying.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

He left the country more divided along racial lines than when he took over. 

 

 

Trump is on track to leave the country more polarized along party lines, racial lines, economic lines, and nationalistic lines than when he took over. But I imagine you'll be a hypocrite and blame the results of Trump's Presidency on Obama as well, or would you hold him to the same standard? 

 

The thing is, Trump helped perpetuate racial division during Obama's Presidency by being all gungho about the bulls#!t birther thing. Obama did not act in a divisive way - you can argue that he responded to events divisively, but he didn't cause them. Corrupt/racist police practices that Obama responded to are not the fault of Obama. White supremacists and white nationalists infiltrating corners of the Republican party and sowing seeds of racial discontent that Obama responded to are not the fault of Obama. 

 

Of course, unacknowledge in all of that is the fact that Obama was, in fact, a black man. If you had to take a guess, do you imagine that there are more white people who hate black people in America, or more black people who hate white people? More white people represented in government, or more black people? More history of white dominance and power in America, or more for black people? Do more white people have to change their behavior/customs to fit into black culture on a daily basis, or do more black people have to do that to fit into white culture? Which direction do you think the animosity and uncomfortableness of a new territory involving a black political leader do you think it all came from?

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27 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Lol back to pushing this white supremacist narrative. In the words of Landlord, please stop lying.

no reply to my statement that trump is helping corporate america rather than the people and that the debt he is amassing will strangle us?

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3 hours ago, teachercd said:

It is funny you said this because I have always thought that saying "relax" to someone is one of the most triggering things that you can say.  People get so pissed when they are told to "relax"

 

People get super offended over it.

 

If by "people" you mean my wife and children, that's been my experience.

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23 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

If by "people" you mean my wife and children, that's been my experience.

DON'T TELL ME TO RELAX...screamed as loud as possible is perhaps the most delicious of all.

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1 hour ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Nope...just pushing back on your excuses for the reality that Obama was a divisive figure and not the unifying figure some on here seem.to think he is. He was and still is a bitter partisan who wanted to win at all costs. 

 

Some liberals and most progressives thought Obama was too compromising with Republicans, determined to prove he wasn't a fire-breathing ideologue. He was, in fact, a centrist. 

 

The Affordable Care Act was a re-hashing of an old Republican blueprint for government healthcare, approved and virtually written by the private healthcare industry. Obama honestly thought Republicans couldn't reject it, since it wasn't socialized medicine at all, but a plan they had actually approved of in the past - and Mitt Romney had successfully implemented in Massachusetts.  

 

Just to jog your memory, that was when Mitch McConnell openly declared that Republicans were determined to oppose whatever Obama proposed, while they tried to figure out what they actually believed in. They called for the repeal of Obamacare something like 67 times. So let's not clutch our pearls about Democrat obstructionism. 

 

Likewise, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, bailed out the bankers and reassured Wall Street that any reform in the wake of the 2008 global credit crisis would remain largely toothless. It was reach-across-the-aisle politicking and compromise. His successful pursuit of terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, would have thrilled conservatives if the President wasn't a Democrat.  

 

Crime actually dropped during the Obama years. The anti-cop stuff didn't come from Obama, it came from a population that now had cell phones handy, capturing s#!t black people go through all the time that we just didn't know about. The difference between how blacks and whites are treated by law enforcement in this country is blatant, provable and embarrassing. Blaming the divisiveness on Black Lives Matter or Obama is straight up racist. Stop it.  

 

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1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Some liberals and most progressives thought Obama was too compromising with Republicans, determined to prove he wasn't a fire-breathing ideologue. He was, in fact, a centrist. 

 

 

This is what is always the weirdest damn accusation/criticism from super right people to me. Obama was divisive? Maybe by default by virtue of being black, he was divisive to people that didn't want to see a black person in the White House.

 

But besides that, there's no argument towards Obama being divisive. So much of the right hated him, while a very good portion of the left was frustrated that he gave those on the right more time and attention and compromise than they thought he should've. Black people thought he didn't speak candidly about race problems (real problems, not manufactured ones) nearly enough. Progressives thought Obamacare didn't go far enough. Occupy Wall Street was furious that he bailed out the banks. Liberals wanting to shake up the status quo hated how opaque and non transparent his administration was. 

 

Only a very far right mentality which only consumes one ideology of "news" could possibly come to the conclusion that Obama was anything other than a classic moderate, centrist Democrat. 

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On 11/8/2018 at 4:17 PM, commando said:

no reply to my statement that trump is helping corporate america rather than the people and that the debt he is amassing will strangle us?

 

I am fully on board that both parties are at fault for continuing to amass debt, including Trump. The number one long term liability facing our country our entitelement programs like Social Security and Medicare, and now with Obamacare and the push for Medicare for all, it will only get worse. Leaders from both parties do not have the courage to tackle this reality.

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15 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

The number one long term liability facing our country our entitelement programs like Social Security and Medicare, and now with Obamacare and the push for Medicare for all, it will only get worse. Leaders from both parties do not have the courage to tackle this reality.

 

 

What about, maybe instead, like just 1% of our defense budget?

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On 11/8/2018 at 4:12 PM, Landlord said:

 

 

Trump is on track to leave the country more polarized along party lines, racial lines, economic lines, and nationalistic lines than when he took over. But I imagine you'll be a hypocrite and blame the results of Trump's Presidency on Obama as well, or would you hold him to the same standard? 

 

The thing is, Trump helped perpetuate racial division during Obama's Presidency by being all gungho about the bulls#!t birther thing. Obama did not act in a divisive way - you can argue that he responded to events divisively, but he didn't cause them. Corrupt/racist police practices that Obama responded to are not the fault of Obama. White supremacists and white nationalists infiltrating corners of the Republican party and sowing seeds of racial discontent that Obama responded to are not the fault of Obama. 

 

Of course, unacknowledge in all of that is the fact that Obama was, in fact, a black man. If you had to take a guess, do you imagine that there are more white people who hate black people in America, or more black people who hate white people? More white people represented in government, or more black people? More history of white dominance and power in America, or more for black people? Do more white people have to change their behavior/customs to fit into black culture on a daily basis, or do more black people have to do that to fit into white culture? Which direction do you think the animosity and uncomfortableness of a new territory involving a black political leader do you think it all came from?

 

This is a post full of nonsense. More blacks support the GOP now than at any point in my lifetime. Black, Hispanic and Asian unemployment and wages are better now than ever.  Regarding party lines or nationalistic lines (whatever the hell that means) the country has been bitterly divided along party lines since the 1990s outside of the time period around 9/11. I think social media has hardened peoples positions as aligning with one party or another.  I actually think Trump is a realignment figure and has transformed the makeup of the parties. Trump won hundreds of counties that Obama carried twice.  As for claiming Obama did not promote division, that is utter nonsense and we have already hashed through this before. He took the wrong side on many issues such as blaming the police or NRA before facts were even available. I still recall and oregon shooting where he came out and delivered an angry speech blaming Republicans for supporting the 2nd amendment as the reason for the shooting...before family members even knew if loved ones were victims, and before knowing if the gun was purchased legally. Again its nonsense to claim he was not responsible for the growing division in the country, or to blame it on the fact that he was black and that caused the division.

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8 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

What about, maybe instead, like just 1% of our defense budget?

 

Hey if we could end this Obamacare/socialized medicine nonsense and start to scale back Social Security promises for future generations I would be fully on board with cutting the defense budget. 

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2 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

This is a post full of nonsense. More blacks support the GOP now than at any point in my lifetime. Black, Hispanic and Asian unemployment and wages are better now than ever.  Regarding party lines or nationalistic lines (whatever the hell that means) the country has been bitterly divided along party lines since the 1990s outside of the time period around 9/11. I think social media has hardened peoples positions as aligning with one party or another.  I actually think Trump is a realignment figure and has transformed the makeup of the parties. Trump won hundreds of counties that Obama carried twice.  As for claiming Obama did not promote division, that is utter nonsense and we have already hashed through this before. He took the wrong side on many issues such as blaming the police or NRA before facts were even available. I still recall and oregon shooting where he came out and delivered an angry speech blaming Republicans for supporting the 2nd amendment as the reason for the shooting...before family members even knew if loved ones were victims, and before knowing if the gun was purchased legally. Again its nonsense to claim he was not responsible for the growing division in the country, or to blame it on the fact that he was black and that caused the division.

 

Almost everything posted above is either straight-up wrong, or missing the crucial piece of context. 

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1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Almost everything posted above is either straight-up wrong, or missing the crucial piece of context. 

 

So Trump does not have greater support of blacks now than other GOP Presidents? Black and Hispanic unemployment is not at an all time low?

 

And you dont feel social media has supported the hardening of voters and encouraged them to pick one side or another. Social media all around encourages more anger and hatred and there is plenty of research to support this.

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15 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Hey if we could end this Obamacare/socialized medicine nonsense and start to scale back Social Security promises for future generations I would be fully on board with cutting the defense budget. 

you do know that social security is not paid out of the general fund...right? 

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3 minutes ago, commando said:

you do know that social security is not paid out of the general fund...right? 

 

Yes its been pay as you go for some time now...the problem is that over time the incoming SS tax revenues will not be able to cover the outlays unless those taxes are massively raised.  If you can show me research suggesting the long term solvency of Social Security is figured out I am all ears. 

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