Will our democracy survive Trump?

[BigRedBuster]

They will be back and start off with a bunch of posts about how it's tiring to have to defend Trump.

 

[commando]

  the rest of the world is laughing at him again.   

 

https://www.newsweek.com/video-donald-trump-tours-burnt-out-town-paradise-calls-it-pleasure-what-name-1221373

[TGHusker]

Pretty true observation:

 

Quote

Yet the strangest thing about life in the United States in 2018 is that every time Trump sits down for an interview like this, he gives new evidence that we should almost certainly be glad he’s too lazy to actually bother doing his job most of the time. After all, he has no real understanding of any of the relevant issues.

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/19/18101383/trump-chris-wallace-fox-news-sunday-interview

 

Speaking of the Saudi Prince's involvement of the recent murder and Trump's refusal to acknowledge MBS leadership in the murder:

 

Quote

 

Whether this stems from Trump’s corrupt financial relationships, a natural affinity for authoritarian leaders, or just some kind of all-around cluelessness, it’s a reminder that having Trump rather than some generic Republican in office does make a difference, even though Trump backs generic Republican policies 99 percent of the time. Weird, unexpected things happen in the world, and then when Trump puts his personal stamp on American policy, it sometimes turns out to be horrendously misguided.

I’m inclined to see something corrupt behind Trump’s weird credulity regarding foreign dictators, but his take on domestic political events does raise the prospect that he’s simply ignorant.

 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I'm almost certain Trump has no agenda beyond getting revenge on the people who say bad things about him.

 

 

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Pretty true observation:

 

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/19/18101383/trump-chris-wallace-fox-news-sunday-interview

 

Speaking of the Saudi Prince's involvement of the recent murder and Trump's refusal to acknowledge MBS leadership in the murder:

 

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

  Quote

 

Whether this stems from Trump’s corrupt financial relationships, a natural affinity for authoritarian leaders, or just some kind of all-around cluelessness, it’s a reminder that having Trump rather than some generic Republican in office does make a difference, even though Trump backs generic Republican policies 99 percent of the time. Weird, unexpected things happen in the world, and then when Trump puts his personal stamp on American policy, it sometimes turns out to be horrendously misguided.

I’m inclined to see something corrupt behind Trump’s weird credulity regarding foreign dictators, but his take on domestic political events does raise the prospect that he’s simply ignorant.

 

To the bolded:  This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to all of my MAGA friends and family members.  Even to people here like Ric and HuskerNation.  I would have voted for almost any other Republican candidate over Hillary Clinton.  But to me, the "sanity" of America, wasn't negotiable...

[TGHusker]

1 hour ago, funhusker said:

To the bolded:  This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to all of my MAGA friends and family members.  Even to people here like Ric and HuskerNation.  I would have voted for almost any other Republican candidate over Hillary Clinton.  But to me, the "sanity" of America, wasn't negotiable...

Agree - anyone but Hillary ...... and Trump. 

 

More on the Wallace interview - on NK - we were close to war and now Trump is in denial regarding NK undermining the negotiation with new activity.

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/19/18102607/trump-fox-news-sunday-interview-wallace-north-korea

 

Quote

 

Wallace brought up the issue during the interview on Sunday, noting “there’s talk that [North Koreans are] putting up new sites.” Trump quickly deflected.

“Maybe they are. Maybe they’re not. I don’t believe that. I don’t. And, you know, could. And which is — if it — if that’s the way it goes, that’s the way it goes. You know, I go with the way we have to go,” the president said.

So Trump doesn’t currently agree with the available intelligence that North Korea is gaining strength while it engages in talks with the US. And while it’s unclear how he feels about secret intelligence he’s privy to, it’s possible he’d come to the same conclusion.

It’s “the policy of denuclearization by denial and delusion,” Vipin Narang, a nuclear expert at MIT, told me. “Hear no evil, see no evil.”

 

 

[Vegas]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:13 AM, Guy Chamberlin said:

I'm almost certain Trump has no agenda beyond getting revenge on the people who say bad things about him.

 

 

If you can't see his agenda then I don't think you have been paying much attention. In 2016 when he was campaigning he made it blatently clear exactly what his agenda was going to be and he is doing just that. Cutting regulations, stronger military, control illegal immigration, lower taxes, balance trade, appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices, eliminate ISIS etc. But somehow according to the left its doomsday for America.

[Landlord]

23 minutes ago, Vegas said:

If you can't see his agenda then I don't think you have been paying much attention. In 2016 when he was campaigning he made it blatently clear exactly what his agenda was going to be and he is doing just that. Cutting regulations, stronger military, control illegal immigration, lower taxes, balance trade, appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices, eliminate ISIS etc. But somehow according to the left its doomsday for America.

 

 

Well he certainly has done a terrible job thus far at

 

• building the wall and making Mexico pay for it

 

• locking Hillary up, or investigating her

 

• deporting illegal aliens

 

• ditching NATO

 

• reapproving waterboarding and instituting tougher torture methods

 

• anything related to his infrastructure promises

 

• successfully banning all Muslims from entering the country

 

• extraditing Syrian refugees

 

• releasing his tax returns

 

• suing his sexual misconduct accusers

 

• cutting the number of tax brackets

 

• stopping the AT&T merger

 

• ethics reforms to reduce the corrupting influence of special interests

 

• repeal Obamacare

 

• replace obamacare with something better

 

• draining the swamp

 

so on and so forth

[Vegas]

2 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Well he certainly has done a terrible job thus far at

 

• building the wall and making Mexico pay for it

 

• locking Hillary up, or investigating her

 

• deporting illegal aliens

 

• ditching NATO

 

• reapproving waterboarding and instituting tougher torture methods

 

• anything related to his infrastructure promises

 

• successfully banning all Muslims from entering the country

 

• extraditing Syrian refugees

 

• releasing his tax returns

 

• suing his sexual misconduct accusers

 

• cutting the number of tax brackets

 

• stopping the AT&T merger

 

• ethics reforms to reduce the corrupting influence of special interests

 

• repeal Obamacare

 

• replace obamacare with something better

 

• draining the swamp

 

so on and so forth

You really need to fact check dude, sounds like you're making up your own facts and listening to left wing news outlets too much.

 

-Trump has started building the wall, he just doesn't have the entire funding for it yet which has to pass through Congress. Will Mexico pay for it? Hell no.

 

-Actually Hillary has been going through multiple investigations before and after Trump was elected. 

 

- Many illegal immigrants have been deported under the Trump administration. It was going on under the Obama administration and well before him. Don't recall the left crying about that though. It was the left wing media that said he was going to deport everyone not Trump.

 

-Trump never said he would ditch NATO, he said he would consider leaving NATO if other countries didn't start paying their fair share. Which btw, more then a few countries have increased their contributions since then.

 

Trump said he approved of waterboarding, not that he would enact it through Congress or enforce it through EO.

 

The infrastructure issue is more of a non partisan one. The Trump administration was smart enough to save that for after midterms while trying to pass everything they could under a Republican controlled Congress. I guarantee you that you will start hearing about infrastructure more in the near future.

 

-Trump never said he would ban all Muslims from this country. Thats CNN, MSNBC, and every other liberal Trump hating fake news network that reported that.

 

-I don't recall Trump ever saying he was going to extradite Syrian refugees. What he did do was put a temporary travel ban on specific countries that has correlations to high terrorism. 

 

-Lets face it, a President is not required to relese their tax returns. Will he? I assume not. But wouldn't it be funny if he trolled the left in 2020 like he did with Rachel Maddow?

 

-Ill give you the reduction of tax brackets argument. Trump didn't really campaign on it much and it wasn't in the tax cut bill that he signed. But I could really care less because I saved $3000 a year by switching to Trump.

 

Want me to keep going because I can. I can also give you a much more lengthy list of failed campign promises and lies under the Obama administration if you want to play this game. But I assume you wouldn't take the time to fact check and respond like you did with this last response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guy Chamberlin]

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

You really need to fact check dude, sounds like you're making up your own facts and listening to left wing news outlets too much.

 

-Trump has started building the wall, he just doesn't have the entire funding for it yet which has to pass through Congress. Will Mexico pay for it? Hell no.

 

-Actually Hillary has been going through multiple investigations before and after Trump was elected. 

 

- Many illegal immigrants have been deported under the Trump administration. It was going on under the Obama administration and well before him. Don't recall the left crying about that though. It was the left wing media that said he was going to deport everyone not Trump.

 

-Trump never said he would ditch NATO, he said he would consider leaving NATO if other countries didn't start paying their fair share. Which btw, more then a few countries have increased their contributions since then.

 

Trump said he approved of waterboarding, not that he would enact it through Congress or enforce it through EO.

 

The infrastructure issue is more of a non partisan one. The Trump administration was smart enough to save that for after midterms while trying to pass everything they could under a Republican controlled Congress. I guarantee you that you will start hearing about infrastructure more in the near future.

 

-Trump never said he would ban all Muslims from this country. Thats CNN, MSNBC, and every other liberal Trump hating fake news network that reported that.

 

-I don't recall Trump ever saying he was going to extradite Syrian refugees. What he did do was put a temporary travel ban on specific countries that has correlations to high terrorism. 

 

-Lets face it, a President is not required to relese their tax returns. Will he? I assume not. But wouldn't it be funny if he trolled the left in 2020 like he did with Rachel Maddow?

 

-Ill give you the reduction of tax brackets argument. Trump didn't really campaign on it much and it wasn't in the tax cut bill that he signed. But I could really care less because I saved $3000 a year by switching to Trump.

 

Want me to keep going because I can. I can also give you a much more lengthy list of failed campign promises and lies under the Obama administration if you want to play this game. But I assume you wouldn't take the time to fact check and respond like you did with this last response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a pretty solid response, Vegas. Hope you'll stick around. 

[BigRedBuster]

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Trump has started building the wall, he just doesn't have the entire funding for it yet which has to pass through Congress. Will Mexico pay for it? Hell no.

 

So, he lied about the bolded.  And....I remember him going to the border and prancing around a wall that he claimed he had started building.  But, that was fairly quickly debunked as not true.

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Actually Hillary has been going through multiple investigations before and after Trump was elected. 

 

Then why does he constantly cry because the justice department isn't investigating her?  Oh......and he promised to lock her up....then almost immediately after election claimed that he wasn't going to do that.  He sure got the votes for saying it though.

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

- Many illegal immigrants have been deported under the Trump administration. It was going on under the Obama administration and well before him. Don't recall the left crying about that though. It was the left wing media that said he was going to deport everyone not Trump.

 

That's right.  Deportations actually increased under Obama.....than why does he think he needs to lie about Democrats wanting an open border and about them organizing caravans?

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Trump never said he would ditch NATO, he said he would consider leaving NATO if other countries didn't start paying their fair share. Which btw, more then a few countries have increased their contributions since then.

 

 

Us leaving NATO would have essentially broken up the entire thing.  But, I will give him credit for getting more countries to pay more.  However, many of those had already agreed to pay more before he was elected.

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

Trump said he approved of waterboarding,

 

Which pretty much proves he knows nothing about the subject and it's ability to get information.....and......there's a little thing called the Geneva Convention that becomes a real problem.

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

The infrastructure issue is more of a non partisan one. The Trump administration was smart enough to save that for after midterms while trying to pass everything they could under a Republican controlled Congress. I guarantee you that you will start hearing about infrastructure more in the near future.

 

I'll be interested in seeing how this comes to fruition.

 

5 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Lets face it, a President is not required to relese their tax returns. Will he? I assume not. But wouldn't it be funny if he trolled the left in 2020 like he did with Rachel Maddow?

 

 

But, let's not kid ourselves.  If it were the Clintons or Obamas not releasing their taxes, the Republicans heads would be exploding.  I actually find it funny that Republicans don't care if he releases them or not.  It pretty much proves that they don't care about anything legal as long as their agenda is getting passed.

 

I do hope you stick around and partake in meaningful conversation.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

8 hours ago, Vegas said:

If you can't see his agenda then I don't think you have been paying much attention. In 2016 when he was campaigning he made it blatently clear exactly what his agenda was going to be and he is doing just that. Cutting regulations, stronger military, control illegal immigration, lower taxes, balance trade, appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices, eliminate ISIS etc. But somehow according to the left its doomsday for America.

 

I'm mostly going by the first 64 years of Donald Trump's life, when he was a Manhattan socialite who played in mostly Democratic circles, and his forays into politics prior to around 2011, when he was generally cogent and pragmatic and highly complimentary to people like Hillary Clinton. He craved attention always, but it was bipartisan. He'd take it wherever he got it. He loved the media and courted it constantly. When he was a private citizen who enjoyed showy self-promotion, Trump and the Media were a marriage made in heaven. There's a very plausible theory that Trump's initial run in 2015 was for leverage in his contract negotiations with NBC for Celebrity Apprentice. That's the kind of agenda he works with. 

 

It got weird with the birther stuff, then Obama giving Trump a relatively mild roast at the Correspondents Dinner. Trump reemerges as a Republican challenger, taking on the GOP establishment in the process. But first and foremost Trump is a showman, and he gets the most attention and the biggest cheers at rallies when he says the ugliest stuff.

 

Trump's policy positions are pretty much GOP and conservative boilerplate, but he has elevated every issue to divisive over-reaction. The border wall is literally insane. 

 

The enemy is the effete East Coasters who never respected the Jersey Developer and the Fake News that has been keenly aware of his bulls#!t all along. 

 

His agenda is punishing anyone who doubted him. He has zero understanding of the consequences to average Americans, or simply doesn't care. 

 

Conversely, if you're a murderous foreign dictator or domestic Nazi who does not have America's best interest at heart, but you're willing to gush fawning praise at Donald Trump, you can pretty much have your way with him. He's that shallow.

 

Doomsday for America? I don't know. But if you thought Barack Obama presented a Constitutional crisis, you should be far more concerned about Donald Trump. The dude is a mess. And if you think only The Left holds that opinion, you're not paying attention.

 

 

[Landlord]

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Trump has started building the wall, he just doesn't have the entire funding for it yet which has to pass through Congress. Will Mexico pay for it? Hell no.

 

Of the 1950 miles of US/Mexico border, we've built a few miles of wall. Also, Trump said over and over and over and over and over again that Mexico was going to pay for it. So as of Thanksgiving 2018, this is a broken promise. We'll come back in two years to see if the wall gets built, and if it does I will give credit to that being a 'kept' promise (albeit a misguided and stupid one), but still point out Trump either lying or breaking his promise of Mexico paying for it.

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Actually Hillary has been going through multiple investigations before and after Trump was elected. 

 

Hillary went through several investigations before Trump, yes. Number one, those have nothing to do with his campaign promises. Number two, a lot of those were led by Republicans and came up with absolutely zilch. Number three, the only post Trump investigation of Clinton I'm aware of was a DOJ probe which we've heard nothing out of it, and which had nothing to do with Trump's promise to appoint a special prosecutor and lock her up.

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

- Many illegal immigrants have been deported under the Trump administration. It was going on under the Obama administration and well before him. Don't recall the left crying about that though. It was the left wing media that said he was going to deport everyone not Trump.

 

"We have at least 11 million people in this country that came in illegally. They will go out. They will come back — some will come back, the best, through a process. They have to come back legally. They have to come back through a process, and it may not be a very quick process, but I think that’s very fair, and very fine."

 

This sounds to me like he is saying they will deport everyone.

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Trump never said he would ditch NATO, he said he would consider leaving NATO if other countries didn't start paying their fair share. Which btw, more then a few countries have increased their contributions since then.

 

You're right on this, he never explicitly said we would ditch NATO. He couldn't seem to help himself from lying or spreading false or misleading stats any time he would talk about it, though. Called it obsolete. Hasn't lowered the amount of money we pay. etc. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

Trump said he approved of waterboarding, not that he would enact it through Congress or enforce it through EO.

 

“I would bring back waterboarding, and I’d bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding,” 

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

The infrastructure issue is more of a non partisan one. The Trump administration was smart enough to save that for after midterms while trying to pass everything they could under a Republican controlled Congress. I guarantee you that you will start hearing about infrastructure more in the near future.

 

That's fair and fine. I'm willing to wait and see on this. But by most metrics and independent observations they've done a very extraordinarily terrible job of fulfilling their promises during the two years they controlled everything in government they could possibly hope to.

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Trump never said he would ban all Muslims from this country. Thats CNN, MSNBC, and every other liberal Trump hating fake news network that reported that.

 

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" - Donald Trump

 

Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski told CNN on Monday that the ban would apply not just to Muslim foreigners looking to immigrate to the U.S., but also to Muslims looking to visit the U.S. as tourists.
"Everyone," Lewandowski said when asked if the ban would also apply to Muslim tourists.

 

After defending the outright Muslim ban for six months, Trump called Rudy Giuliani in early May 2016 [1] to, as Trump himself put it, “look at the Muslim ban.” Giuliani explained that Trump told him, “Show me the right way to do it legally.”

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

I don't recall Trump ever saying he was going to extradite Syrian refugees. What he did do was put a temporary travel ban on specific countries that has correlations to high terrorism. 

 

From a campaign rally in Keene, N.H. - “I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria, as part of this mass migration, that if I win, if I win, they're going back.” 

 

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-Lets face it, a President is not required to relese their tax returns. Will he? I assume not. But wouldn't it be funny if he trolled the left in 2020 like he did with Rachel Maddow?

 

You're right. But he said he would. Many times. So....why hasn't he?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can feel free to make a similar list for Obama if you want. I don't care much because Obama isn't our President. I'd probably just take your word on most of them and believe them to be true. The difference I perceive is that Trump is an opportunist who hijacked the Republican party and doesn't stand for anything, and thus, many of his promises are things he doesn't give a single s#!t about but rather says to rally up a fevered populist base. AKA, he's a liar and some degree of a con artist. A snake oil salesman who saw an opportunity in a dysfunctional power structure with a gullible market.Obama is just an old school politician. I don't venture to know if he personally believed in all the things he was doing or promising - it seemed he did, but at the very least it seemed like he thought they were important for the success of his Presidency or his party and was quite consistent on them even when they turned into broken promises.

[LumberJackSker]

10 hours ago, Vegas said:

If you can't see his agenda then I don't think you have been paying much attention. In 2016 when he was campaigning he made it blatently clear exactly what his agenda was going to be and he is doing just that. Cutting regulations, stronger military, control illegal immigration, lower taxes, balance trade, appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices, eliminate ISIS etc. But somehow according to the left its doomsday for America.

He's failing

[LumberJackSker]

7 hours ago, Vegas said:

You really need to fact check dude, sounds like you're making up your own facts and listening to left wing news outlets too much.

 

-Trump has started building the wall, he just doesn't have the entire funding for it yet which has to pass through Congress. Will Mexico pay for it? Hell no.

 

-Actually Hillary has been going through multiple investigations before and after Trump was elected. 

 

- Many illegal immigrants have been deported under the Trump administration. It was going on under the Obama administration and well before him. Don't recall the left crying about that though. It was the left wing media that said he was going to deport everyone not Trump.

 

-Trump never said he would ditch NATO, he said he would consider leaving NATO if other countries didn't start paying their fair share. Which btw, more then a few countries have increased their contributions since then.

 

Trump said he approved of waterboarding, not that he would enact it through Congress or enforce it through EO.

 

The infrastructure issue is more of a non partisan one. The Trump administration was smart enough to save that for after midterms while trying to pass everything they could under a Republican controlled Congress. I guarantee you that you will start hearing about infrastructure more in the near future.

 

-Trump never said he would ban all Muslims from this country. Thats CNN, MSNBC, and every other liberal Trump hating fake news network that reported that.

 

-I don't recall Trump ever saying he was going to extradite Syrian refugees. What he did do was put a temporary travel ban on specific countries that has correlations to high terrorism. 

 

-Lets face it, a President is not required to relese their tax returns. Will he? I assume not. But wouldn't it be funny if he trolled the left in 2020 like he did with Rachel Maddow?

 

-Ill give you the reduction of tax brackets argument. Trump didn't really campaign on it much and it wasn't in the tax cut bill that he signed. But I could really care less because I saved $3000 a year by switching to Trump.

 

Want me to keep going because I can. I can also give you a much more lengthy list of failed campign promises and lies under the Obama administration if you want to play this game. But I assume you wouldn't take the time to fact check and respond like you did with this last response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not true they haven't even chosen a design yet. Most of the "wall" thats been built since he's been president has replaced existing border wall there's only a few more miles of wall than there was before.