Should $ be spent to recover the body of idiot US missionary

[TGHusker]

3 hours ago, Landlord said:

@TGHusker, do you think missionaries should try to evangelize and spread the gospel to isolated people groups like this? 

One quick phrase can answer your question: 
For God so loved the world. 

 

But I'll add more to it. 

 

Yes,  If as a Christian you believe that God wants to reveal Himself to all people and that God loves all people, then as a fulfillment of Christ's great commission (Matt 28) we are to take the gospel to all people.   As a Christian we believe that no one is outside of His grace for changing lives and for salvation.  

 

I don't limit the grace of God.  If God can so transform us 'modern salvages' (like you and I - or the heathen who were our ancestors many generations ago in other far away lands ) why can he not so transform these.  Sure, we can leave isolated groups in their own culture as a kind of 'human zoo' but I'd rather see them touched by the power of the gospel and have the promise of eternity through faith in Christ.    Sharing the Gospel doesn't mean they lose their culture (the Gospel flourishes in every culture around the world) but it means they lose fear, anger, etc. 

 

You can find articles about the isolated tribe that killed Jim Elliot and his group and how their tribe was transformed from hatred and darkness to love through the gospel.   For example, Nate Saint, the pilot who was killed, - his oldest son, Steve Saint, was later baptized by Mincaye, the very 'savage' who had killed his dad.  This is a testimony of a changed life. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Saint

Quote

Nate's older son, Steve Saint, spent time as a child visiting his missionary family members and friends and getting to know the Huaorani. Steve was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ by Mincaye, who was the very man who killed his father but later converted to Christ. Steve Saint now works with the Huaorani people and travels around the world, preaching the gospel, often accompanied by Mincaye.^[4] A documentary based on the story, Beyond Gates of Splendor, was released in 2005. The following year, a feature film, End of the Spear, was released on January 20, a week and a half after the 50-year anniversary of the killings. Steve Saint also helped write Jungle Pilot, based on his father's diary about his time in Ecuador and work with the Huaorani Indians. Steven Curtis Chapman wrote the song No Greater Love from his album Declaration (Steven Curtis Chapman album) as a tribute to Nate and his fellow missionaries, and how their work ultimately came to fruition.

 

 

Matt 28:18-20:

¹⁸ Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. ¹⁹ Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ²⁰ and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

[ZRod]

Do people who don't know about Jesus go to heaven?

[TGHusker]

52 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Do people who don't know about Jesus go to heaven?

The book of Romans is a great book of the Bible to read on this topic. 

Romans chapter 1-3 basically tells us that we are judged by the light that we have.  Romans 1 specifically tells us of the witness of nature and natural law, chapter 2 of the inner witness of our conscience.   Chapter 3 talks of us all falling short of the glory of God.  Chapters 4-11 speak of faith, our sinful nature and the inability to 'do good', God's grace to help us to 'do good', etc.  Before the apostle Paul goes into 'practical Christian living' in chapters 12-16 he ends with this one amazing last doctrinal thought as highlighted in bold below.

So who goes to heaven - that  is a question for One of greater authority than I.  I will trust in His grace.   (I can give you the straight evangelical answer but I somehow think there will be more grace involved than with the typical evangelical answer). 

 

 

Chapter 11 ends with this:

³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

³³ O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

³⁴ For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

³⁵ Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

³⁶ For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

[ZRod]

So if God has mercy on those who don't know about him, why do we even need to bother to tell them about him? Seems like you just wind up making more mistkes when you know the rules you have to play by, if you catch my drift.

[Landlord]

Either Jesus is the only exclusive way to heaven or eternal life and you must have knowledge and acceptance of him, in which case its of utmost importance to reach unreached people.

 

or

 

God is gracious and good and who makes it into heaven is something a bit more mysterious and cosmic than whether or not you were lucky enough to be born inside a tiny sliver of the history of humankind and are able to be cognizant of the right combo of intellectual theses, in which case it's likely best not to risk disease/erosion of culture trying to reach or convert people.

[DevoHusker]

7 hours ago, Landlord said:

God is gracious and good and who makes it into heaven is something a bit more mysterious and cosmic than whether or not you were lucky enough to be born inside a tiny sliver of the history of humankind and are able to be cognizant of the right combo of intellectual theses, in which case it's likely best not to risk disease/erosion of culture trying to reach or convert people.

 

ima say this

[knapplc]

8 hours ago, Landlord said:

God is gracious and good and who makes it into heaven is something a bit more mysterious and cosmic than whether or not you were lucky enough to be born inside a tiny sliver of the history of humankind and are able to be cognizant of the right combo of intellectual theses, in which case it's likely best not to risk disease/erosion of culture trying to reach or convert people. 

 

Except that is contrary to Jesus' words.

 

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

[VectorVictor]

14 hours ago, ZRod said:

So if God has mercy on those who don't know about him, why do we even need to bother to tell them about him? Seems like you just wind up making more mistkes when you know the rules you have to play by, if you catch my drift.

 

Plus, if you include the Gospel of Thomas (conveniently left out of the formation of the Bible by the Catholic Church), it validates that you do not need to know scripture, attend (or form) a church, or even know Jesus to be one with God.

 

[BigRedBuster]

There are missionaries that do amazing work.  Not just preaching, but bringing aid to poverty stricken areas.  I have had family members who have been pilots flying medical aid to remote areas as missionaries, as an example.  And, some of that was in very dangerous situations.

 

Just because a person is a "missionary" doesn't mean their mission they are/were on shouldn't be respected, even by atheists.  

[ZRod]

28 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

There are missionaries that do amazing work.  Not just preaching, but bringing aid to poverty stricken areas.  I have had family members who have been pilots flying medical aid to remote areas as missionaries, as an example.  And, some of that was in very dangerous situations.

 

Just because a person is a "missionary" doesn't mean their mission they are/were on shouldn't be respected, even by atheists.  

I don't think anyone here is disrespecting an admirable thing like giving aid to those in need.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, ZRod said:

I don't think anyone here is disrespecting an admirable thing like giving aid to those in need.

 

I know.  I just felt I needed to make that point clear.  Sometimes I read the title of the thread and wonder when I see the phrase "idiot US missionary".  

[ZRod]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I know.  I just felt I needed to make that point clear.  Sometimes I read the title of the thread and wonder when I see the phrase "idiot US missionary".  

Maybe we can change it to "idiot US citizen", or is that too redundant? 

[Moiraine]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I know.  I just felt I needed to make that point clear.  Sometimes I read the title of the thread and wonder when I see the phrase "idiot US missionary".  

 

 

He’s an idiot US missionary. He’s from the US, he’s a missionary, and he’s an idiot. I knew people would know exactly who I meant with the title. 

 

There’s nothing about missionaries in general implied by the title except perhaps in your imagination.

 

My family has hosted missionaries and includes missionaries, and I’m not an athiest.

[Landlord]

4 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Except that is contrary to Jesus' words.

 

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

 

 

There's a whole lot of open space in between the text on the page of that verse and the specific ways that American Christianity interprets it into exclusivity.

[Moiraine]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Just because a person is a "missionary" doesn't mean their mission they are/were on shouldn't be respected, even by atheists.  

 

 

I don’t think anyone said or implied this.

 

His mission shouldn’t be respected because the population he was trying to reach has almost been entirely annihilated by visitors in the past. I’m sure in his mind he was saving their souls which are more important than their lives which is why he risked his life, but I still think he was an idiot and worse to go there. a$$h@!e is probably a better word.