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Should $ be spent to recover the body of idiot US missionary

Moiraine

By Moiraine,
in Politics & Religion

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Landlord said:

Either Jesus is the only exclusive way to heaven or eternal life and you must have knowledge and acceptance of him, in which case its of utmost importance to reach unreached people.

 

or

 

God is gracious and good and who makes it into heaven is something a bit more mysterious and cosmic than whether or not you were lucky enough to be born inside a tiny sliver of the history of humankind and are able to be cognizant of the right combo of intellectual theses, in which case it's likely best not to risk disease/erosion of culture trying to reach or convert people.

I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven as he became the 'legal' answer to the problem of man's sin and God's justice (I am the Way, The Truth, the Life - as Knapp quoted).  However, I don't think it is reduced to a 'tiny sliver of history'.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, we have been given 'light' though nature, natural law, and conscience.  God responds to us based on our response to the little light (or much) that we have.  Prior to Jesus, the Bible says that the Old Testament believers were saved by their belief in the messiah to come - they lived a life of faith in the hope of salvation.   They had more light than others as they had the law of Moses but that basically codified the natural law written in their heart about right and wrong.  I think (my opinion only) those people outside of the Bible times/places will be treated by God similarly.  

 

People in the Church read it differently - there are those on the 'Universal Salvation' side that would say that based on Rom 5:12-21 quoted below that Jesus died for all universally and thus all are saved by his action universally- with no action of faith on our end.  Others, evangelicals, for example, believe that Jesus died for all but it only becomes 'effectual' upon the expression of faith in his work - his death on the cross and His resurrection.  You also have the strict 5 point Calvinists (TULIP) who believe that God specifically chooses who would believe, influences them to believe and all others be dammed.  

 

So to answer the question in a simple way:  Jesus is the only way to salvation as he solves the problem of unrighteous people standing before a righteous God who demands holiness for us to be in his presence - His death provides the legal remedy to this legal dilemma.  His resurrection gives us power to overcome the evil influences now and hope for our own resurrection as he overcame the power of evil and death itself (we could go real deep into theology at this point but I won't).  Salvation is by the grace of God, not by our works so I will

leave the 'who gets to heaven' to Him.  The pastor who married my wife and I stated once that we will be surprised by who we see in heaven (and maybe don't see) because God judges the heart and not the outward actions. 

 

Quote

Romans 9: 14- 16:  14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy.

 

Romans 5:12-21

Quote

 

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.21

18 Therefore, as one trespass[f] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[g] leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

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StPaulHusker Offensive Coordinator

StPaulHusker

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, TGHusker said:

One quick phrase can answer your question: 
For God so loved the world. 

 

But I'll add more to it. 

 

Yes,  If as a Christian you believe that God wants to reveal Himself to all people and that God loves all people, then as a fulfillment of Christ's great commission (Matt 28) we are to take the gospel to all people.   As a Christian we believe that no one is outside of His grace for changing lives and for salvation.  

 

I don't limit the grace of God.  If God can so transform us 'modern salvages' (like you and I - or the heathen who were our ancestors many generations ago in other far away lands ) why can he not so transform these.  Sure, we can leave isolated groups in their own culture as a kind of 'human zoo' but I'd rather see them touched by the power of the gospel and have the promise of eternity through faith in Christ.    Sharing the Gospel doesn't mean they lose their culture (the Gospel flourishes in every culture around the world) but it means they lose fear, anger, etc. 

 

You can find articles about the isolated tribe that killed Jim Elliot and his group and how their tribe was transformed from hatred and darkness to love through the gospel.   For example, Nate Saint, the pilot who was killed, - his oldest son, Steve Saint, was later baptized by Mincaye, the very 'savage' who had killed his dad.  This is a testimony of a changed life. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Saint

 

 

Matt 28:18-20:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

I just want to point out that whoever eyerolled this when TGHusker was simply giving his answer to a question posed to him is plain disrespectful.  You don't have to agree with what he said or believe in God.  But his answer was honest and open.  If you don't want to be part of honest and open discussion, GTFO.

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

 

I just want to point out that whoever eyerolled this when TGHusker was simply giving his answer to a question posed to him is plain disrespectful.  You don't have to agree with what he said or believe in God.  But his answer was honest and open.  If you don't want to be part of honest and open discussion, GTFO.

Thanks ST Paul - I crown you a real Saint

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commando Defensive Coordinator

commando

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Also in answer to the question in the OP.

 

Should GOVERNMENT money be used to recover the body?  No.

 

Should his church hire a private contractor to recover the body?  Up to them.

i thought it was an international treaty that forbids ANYONE from going to that island.   it would be illegal for his church to send anyone there.   we need to say god led him there so we need to leave him where god sent him.   

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Landlord said:

I'm not asking if Jesus is the only way to heaven; I'm asking if explicit knowledge of the person of Jesus and intellectual acceptance of that person as lord and savior is the only way to heaven.

 

You are positing that it isn't. I agree.

Bottom line - I am posting that it is up to God who shows mercy.  My personal "dogma' is in line with the evangelical view point.  However, I realize that none of us have pure 'dogma or doctrine'. So I give allowances to those wtout explicit knowledge.   We all 'see through a glass dimly' as Paul notes in Ist Corinthians 13. (Donald that is First Corinthians not One Corinthians by the way - just in case the donald is reading HB).  And God is bigger than our doctrine which is our own 'spiritual world view' based on our understanding of scripture, etc. 

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