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49 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I tell them that all the time.  We as teachers (doesn't matter the school or private or public) constantly do some"indoctrination" by accident and on purpose, we are human and it happens. 

 

I tell me seniors that they should all look into rushing when they go off to college.  Some people would probably freak out about that and consider brainwashing.  

I would just tell my kids to not listen to you.  And that it's perfectly normal to not have to pay for friends.

 

But do make sure to take advantage of "Rush Week" and all the parties and beer...

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9 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I would just tell my kids to not listen to you.  And that it's perfectly normal to not have to pay for friends.

 

But do make sure to take advantage of "Rush Week" and all the parties and beer...

Hahaha!

 

Yeah, nice try...your kids would be totally under my spell of indoctrination!!!

 

5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

That’s pure indoctrination my friend. 
 

 

I know, right!

 

I love how THIS is bad...but being like "Yo...just cause you are a boy doesn't mean you can't really be a moose" is totally okay

 

(Waiting for the "Can you show me exactly where this happened post)

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49 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Sincerely would love to hear from the two folks that laughed at the data set points I shared on public vs private teacher salaries.  What was funny?  Or is it just the usual suspect(s) laughing at someone they disagree with?

Not sure who the “usual suspects are”. They seems to laugh at almost everything post too. I did find your post funny because of below.   My reasoning is you first claim a huge component of failing schools is teacher pay.  Yet if you compare teacher pay in inner city schools and inner city private schools it’s either the same or as you noted less at the private school and outcomes are much different.   It seems you contradict yourself in it being a HUGE problem.  
 

Im all for teachers making as much as they can get.  But 2 income teacher households can lead a pretty decent life even in New York if as you notes it would amount to just shy of $200,000 annually.  They won’t be super wealthy, but summers off and another 1 1/2 months off during the year isn’t welfare either. 
 

I also found your rural argument to not make much sense because if their isn’t a private option for rural students because of distance, those districts aren’t actually losing out on any money and it’s the status quo for them.  If they live in a rural area but larger town like where I grew up, a private school option is in almost all of those places.   The vast majority of the kids in those public schools would end of staying in the public system even with school choice because the schools are relatively good and fit the needs as good as the private options.   Speaking from one persons experience on this along with many family and friends across the state.  

 

 

This may all be true, but I think that a HUGE component is teacher pay.  Average salary for a teacher is fairly low if you want to live on it.  

 

I admit when I went looking for sources to back up my opinion I was surprised - in 2022 private schools averaged lower pay than public (I thought it would be the opposite) but in reading why, it comes down to:  1. private schools don't always require certification or training to teach and 2. the benefits offered at private schools are often lackluster in comparison to state teachers.  Of course there are elite private schools that pay more and provide excellent benes but the many privates do not.  Regardless, 46k or 61k is not a living in many states.  

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1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Not sure who the “usual suspects are”. They seems to laugh at almost everything post too. I did find your post funny because of below.   My reasoning is you first claim a huge component of failing schools is teacher pay.  Yet if you compare teacher pay in inner city schools and inner city private schools it’s either the same or as you noted less at the private school and outcomes are much different.   It seems you contradict yourself in it being a HUGE problem.  
 

Im all for teachers making as much as they can get.  But 2 income teacher households can lead a pretty decent life even in New York if as you notes it would amount to just shy of $200,000 annually.  They won’t be super wealthy, but summers off and another 1 1/2 months off during the year isn’t welfare either. 
 

I also found your rural argument to not make much sense because if their isn’t a private option for rural students because of distance, those districts aren’t actually losing out on any money and it’s the status quo for them.  If they live in a rural area but larger town like where I grew up, a private school option is in almost all of those places.   The vast majority of the kids in those public schools would end of staying in the public system even with school choice because the schools are relatively good and fit the needs as good as the private options.   Speaking from one persons experience on this along with many family and friends across the state.  

 

 

 

This may all be true, but I think that a HUGE component is teacher pay.  Average salary for a teacher is fairly low if you want to live on it.  

 

I admit when I went looking for sources to back up my opinion I was surprised - in 2022 private schools averaged lower pay than public (I thought it would be the opposite) but in reading why, it comes down to:  1. private schools don't always require certification or training to teach and 2. the benefits offered at private schools are often lackluster in comparison to state teachers.  Of course there are elite private schools that pay more and provide excellent benes but the many privates do not.  Regardless, 46k or 61k is not a living in many states.  

I appreciate the response.  

 

I did think that I'd find public teachers were under paid, but I also thought I find that credentialling requirements would be the same.  I'd hope that folks teaching with a degree would get a bigger check than those who don't have a teaching certificate.   But in general the income for public or private is  poor. Your example of a couple in NY of 200,000 a couple, or a family isn't going to be able to live on that.  It wouldn't allow them to rent a decent place in a safe area much less purchase a home, and the cost of daycare if they have kids, transportation, groceries- .  If these folks are the most important building block of a kids life outside the home is 40-60k appropriate?  Do you think that salary would be attractive to the best of the best for our kids?  I believe we are likely getting lackluster teachers because anybody smart is looking outside education to make a living.

 

And I may be mistaken, but isn't the schooling budget at a state level?  So Nebraska gets $100 total now for public schools, and if they move ahead with vouchers that $100 gets split between the existing recipients PLUS private schools?  I could certainly be wrong about that so you can let me know.  I agree with what others have said in general.  Public schools need the money they get and then some - privates have alternative ways of raising money and seem to do well in that regard - why should my tax dollars go to support private schools?

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52 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Your example of a couple in NY of 200,000 a couple, or a family isn't going to be able to live on that.  It wouldn't allow them to rent a decent place in a safe area much less purchase a home, and the cost of daycare if they have kids, transportation, groceries- .  

I respectfully disagree, esp with the DINK scenario.  My daughter currently lives about 10 blocks away from where the World Trade Centers once stood and just off the water in the financial district.  She makes $65k and lives with a friend who makes $60k. 2 bd 1 bath with a doorman, security, W&D etc and they are doing just fine paying rent and having some money to explore the city after expenses.  It’s not a lot left, but 2 teachers in NYC would be making $60k more than those two combined if the numbers you showed were correct.  A family would be tighter I definitely agree, but maybe the city could make allowances or something for housing since that’s the major expense.  
 

That said, I certainly wouldn’t begrudge teachers getting paid more or anyone for that matter if they can get it.   I just don’t think teacher pay is the issue for failing schools or even a top 5 reason. Just my opinion. 
 

1 hour ago, NM11046 said:

And I may be mistaken, but isn't the schooling budget at a state level?  

State level funding with district bonds voted on by the tax payer where I live.  

 

1 hour ago, NM11046 said:

why should my tax dollars go to support private schools?

Your tax dollars already go to support private undergraduate and graduate schools. 

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15 hours ago, NM11046 said:

I appreciate the response.  

 

I did think that I'd find public teachers were under paid, but I also thought I find that credentialling requirements would be the same.  I'd hope that folks teaching with a degree would get a bigger check than those who don't have a teaching certificate.   But in general the income for public or private is  poor. Your example of a couple in NY of 200,000 a couple, or a family isn't going to be able to live on that.  It wouldn't allow them to rent a decent place in a safe area much less purchase a home, and the cost of daycare if they have kids, transportation, groceries- .  If these folks are the most important building block of a kids life outside the home is 40-60k appropriate?  Do you think that salary would be attractive to the best of the best for our kids?  I believe we are likely getting lackluster teachers because anybody smart is looking outside education to make a living.

 

And I may be mistaken, but isn't the schooling budget at a state level?  So Nebraska gets $100 total now for public schools, and if they move ahead with vouchers that $100 gets split between the existing recipients PLUS private schools?  I could certainly be wrong about that so you can let me know.  I agree with what others have said in general.  Public schools need the money they get and then some - privates have alternative ways of raising money and seem to do well in that regard - why should my tax dollars go to support private schools?

This was kinda timely since we were just discussing teacher pay.  Here is a Gov trying to do something about it.  

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ron-desantis-florida-teacher-pay-unions-schools-national-education-association-11674687053
 

Gov. DeSantis announced a plan Monday to pass a Teachers’ Bill of Rights and spend an extra $200 million on teacher pay in the coming school year. The funds will bring the total the state has spent on teacher salaries to more than $3 billion from 2020 to 2024. They’ll also lift the minimum salary to more than $48,000, eighth-highest among states according to the National Education Association.

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35 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

This was kinda timely since we were just discussing teacher pay.  Here is a Gov trying to do something about it.  

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ron-desantis-florida-teacher-pay-unions-schools-national-education-association-11674687053
 

Gov. DeSantis announced a plan Monday to pass a Teachers’ Bill of Rights and spend an extra $200 million on teacher pay in the coming school year. The funds will bring the total the state has spent on teacher salaries to more than $3 billion from 2020 to 2024. They’ll also lift the minimum salary to more than $48,000, eighth-highest among states according to the National Education Association.

Great....but gosh darn don't have books for those little kids to read.

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

God forbid, not in their classrooms.  Those classroom libraries are dangerous for kids.  The teacher might have some secret information they're using to groom them.

Yep you nailed it.  Little kids in FL don’t have books in their classrooms.  And the danger in libraries, man don’t get me started.  It’s like a war zone for the kiddos.   In a seriousness, you had a weird response to a post about a Governor doing something about teacher pay IMO.   You should have just stopped at “Great” 

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