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1 minute ago, teachercd said:

There is nothing wrong with learning more.  I wish HS's had more electives.  

 

Instead so many students can't wait to get to senior year so that they can take 3 classes and leave school each day by 11:30...so that they can go "work", which is what they will be doing the rest of their lives. 

great post

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31 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm fine with not making students pay for it and/or reducing the price of college. But I think taking classes beyond the minimum necessary for job training is important.

It’s fine to think those unnecessary classes are important, just don’t mandate them as a condition for a degree that is needed to get a job, where that job doesn’t care if you took art history or not. 

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48 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s fine to think those unnecessary classes are important, just don’t mandate them as a condition for a degree that is needed to get a job, where that job doesn’t care if you took art history or not. 

This is where I am at.

 

Also, we can't have more electives in HS because all of the mandated testing to graduated.

 

As a private school we have shop classes and culinary arts.  In this area, much of that has been cut at the city public schools.  I think there is some of it in suburban schools, but not enough.

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On 4/26/2023 at 9:00 AM, ZRod said:

It's a college. They shouldn't be forcing you to learn about the US  government unless it's your major. College is about higher education of you choice. As part of that you are required to get some additional rounding in areas outside your major, but there are always a lot of different subjects to choose from. For example for the history requirements you can usually choose from a wide array of: classical history, modern history, art history, music history (I love taking history of Rock at UNL), American history, European history, Africa history, Asian history, etc.

 

There is no reason we should be forcing college students to learn about US government, especially when there are foreign nationals in our university system from hundreds of different countries.

I would support civics being required. The HS classes are not enough. Who knows, if we required it, maybe less people would vote for trump.:cowbell: of course they would have to go to college first. 

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On 4/26/2023 at 10:37 AM, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well the article leaves out the obvious fact that both pieces of legislation are Republican sponsored and agenda driven, and the dictated specifics are indeed a passive-aggressive slap to the spirit of academic freedom. Full disclosure: the sponsors of this bill are at war with higher education. 

 

It's almost like this Fox article was written for people to repost in online forums, where they can ask "how can anyone be opposed to learning our country's history?" and "Look! They included Martin Luther King Jr.!"  while demonizing professors and pretending not to know the actual motives of the bill's sponsors, who otherwise s#!t bricks when anyone dares to teach real American history. 

I am all for real American history...as opposed to 1619. BTW I honestly  appreciate your commentary...most of the time.:thumbs

 

Edit: I should also say that I agree gov should stay out of this. I can always chose to send my kids to certain colleges....I am paying after all. 

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1 hour ago, nic said:

I am all for real American history...as opposed to 1619. BTW I honestly  appreciate your commentary...most of the time.:thumbs

 

Edit: I should also say that I agree gov should stay out of this. I can always chose to send my kids to certain colleges....I am paying after all. 

Define real...

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On 4/28/2023 at 3:17 PM, ZRod said:

Define real...

The history I learned in school. Pretty broad question to try and answer in a forum. I kept my brothers college history book from the 80s for my kids....just in case. ;) I had to pull it out once when a HS history teacher messed up some Korean War details. 

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10 hours ago, nic said:

The history I learned in school. Pretty broad question to try and answer in a forum. I kept my brothers college history book from the 80s for my kids....just in case. ;) I had to pull it out once when a HS history teacher messed up some Korean War details. 

I was born in 1967. So, while I was in school, I was NOT taught certain realities of the Vietnam war and what was going on in the US during that time. 
 

So, what is the real American history that I should have been taught?  
 

My mother was born in 1930. She never knew hardly anything about racism till she was out of HS and in the early 60s and traveled to the south and experienced segregation. 
 

Whats the real history with race she learned in school?

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18 minutes ago, Ulty said:

 

 

This is a shamefully problematic take. What makes you say that the history that you learned in the 80s is "real American history"? What are your critiques about the 1619 Project?

 

Do you believe that there are no perspectives or nuance to history beyond what you may have been taught decades ago? Are you afraid to be confronted with additional information?

 

I have always enjoyed learning about history. About 10 years ago, I took a few additional college history classes, taking advantage of free tuition from my wife's job while I was considering a new degree. Comparing the details that I learned in those classes compared to what was glossed over or ignored in my high school and college classes in the 90s was pretty jarring. The history classes I took in my younger days tended to downplay the massive role of slavery in the early economy of our country. Of course we were all aware of slavery and knew it was wrong, but the impact and brutality of it has always been somewhat minimized.

 

We placed the founding fathers one a pedestal while ignoring the complicated legacies of the fact that most of them were slaveowners and "compromised" to deny rights to black Americans and women. We were not taught about the Civil Rights era (other than on MLK Day) and certainly not taught how the Civil Rights movement was interwoven with the politics of Vietnam and the Cold War. 

 

There was so much nuance about our short but complicated history that was swept under the rug in favor of jingoistic nationalism. As I have learned more about our history (and continue to learn), I feel shortchanged by the classes I took in my younger days. Hell, I never even heard about the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa until a couple of years ago. As a music guy, I knew all about the cultural significance of Woodstock, but knew nothing about the Harlem Cultural Festival that same year until recently. 

 

Some people call this stuff Critical Race Theory. But this is "real American history." Choosing to ignore it does not help you. 

Thinking that you learned all you need to know about history in school decades ago, and there is no room to learn anything different, is anti-intellectual. In fact, you are outright embracing ignorance.

 

 

giphy.webp

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1 hour ago, Ulty said:

 

 

This is a shamefully problematic take. What makes you say that the history that you learned in the 80s is "real American history"? What are your critiques about the 1619 Project?

 

Do you believe that there are no perspectives or nuance to history beyond what you may have been taught decades ago? Are you afraid to be confronted with additional information?

 

I have always enjoyed learning about history. About 10 years ago, I took a few additional college history classes, taking advantage of free tuition from my wife's job while I was considering a new degree. Comparing the details that I learned in those classes compared to what was glossed over or ignored in my high school and college classes in the 90s was pretty jarring. The history classes I took in my younger days tended to downplay the massive role of slavery in the early economy of our country. Of course we were all aware of slavery and knew it was wrong, but the impact and brutality of it has always been somewhat minimized.

 

We placed the founding fathers one a pedestal while ignoring the complicated legacies of the fact that most of them were slaveowners and "compromised" to deny rights to black Americans and women. We were not taught about the Civil Rights era (other than on MLK Day) and certainly not taught how the Civil Rights movement was interwoven with the politics of Vietnam and the Cold War. 

 

There was so much nuance about our short but complicated history that was swept under the rug in favor of jingoistic nationalism. As I have learned more about our history (and continue to learn), I feel shortchanged by the classes I took in my younger days. Hell, I never even heard about the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa until a couple of years ago. As a music guy, I knew all about the cultural significance of Woodstock, but knew nothing about the Harlem Cultural Festival that same year until recently. 

 

Some people call this stuff Critical Race Theory. But this is "real American history." Choosing to ignore it does not help you. 

Thinking that you learned all you need to know about history in school decades ago, and there is no room to learn anything different, is anti-intellectual. In fact, you are outright embracing ignorance.

A great read in response to 1619 project

 

https://www.cato.org/commentary/1619-project-autopsy

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We are right in the thick of this, with a 19 year old in community college still struggling mightily with math, a subject he has no intention of using in a career he still hasn't chosen but remains a requirement for the transfer to the universities that generously slot 2 year students. He has thrived in History and Psychology, two subjects that might not apply to his un-chosen profession, either. Most importantly, he has met people, learned how to navigate life independently, dealt with the good and bad of unsolicited roommates, grown two inches, had some adventures, and made out with women who eluded him in high school. 

 

He's still stressed, worried that he doesn't know what he wants to be, or that he'll change his mind after committing to a field of study. I remind him that at his age, I fully intended to be a KFMQ disc jockey. His grandfather changed his mind at 40, going back to get an MA degree. Kids who know what they want to do and apply themselves accordingly are lucky and admirable. Good lord do we need dedicated engineering students. But undirected 19 year olds aren't unusual, either. We're of the mind that the task at hand is getting a college degree, the piece of paper itself, whatever it symbolizes in the job market, however debatable the price and value of a college education may be. Get the degree and pursue whatever life you want from there. It's table stakes. 

 

College is where you meet people, and if necessary, reinvent the kid you were in high school. It's where the roommate you tolerated turns into a connection down the road, getting you into his or his dad's company, in a field you never imagined working for a company that doesn't care what your major was. It's where you meet the beautiful Chilean heiress who pays you to be her boy toy, at least if you go by my son's current strategy.  

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Does the real american history taught in schools mention things like Agent Orange, redlining, the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, Japanese internment camps, FBI and police terrorism towards the Black Panther breakfast programs, the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, all the times we have faked or lied about attacks against us in order to justify war, etc.

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