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20 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

This is an area where I fully 100% support the teachers.  That s#!t has to stop.

 

When I was a kid, if you caused problems, you were sent to "the hole".  It was what used to be the ticket booth for the gym.  It had no windows and was small.  You were required to sit in it for hours with the lights off.  Nothing to do.

 

It sucked.....so I'm told.  You did not want to be sent to the hole.

 

This was in Junior High.

The Hole! This is awesome.

 

I can’t rival that story. However in 6th grade our teacher would put the troublemakers in her storage closet (behind the front of the classroom) with no lights and nothing to do, just you and a chair. I got to experience it once, I think for maybe half an hour. Of course the bad apple in the class was always in there.

 

One more short story :lol: That same bad apple got in a fight with a kid during recess and that same teachers was watching from the sidelines and telling the “good” kid to hit him again. :lol: True story, remember it like it was yesterday. And seriously, she was considered one of the best elementary teachers in the Columbus elementary school system.

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1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

This would be a wrong assessment.

 

My boss works with me three straight days, all day long every single month.  His boss comes into town and works with me twice a year for two days, 10 hrs each day plus dinner.  Each visit has an evaluation at the end, and each quarter has an evaluation, and each year end has an evaluation.   None of this bothers me a bit as it’s part of the job I agreed to.  

Just wondering, when your boss stops in does anyone in your office/cube/space throw things at you or tell you to f#&% off or refuse to listen to you or fall asleep or refuse to get off their phone?

 

Look, I worked a normal job before...my bosses never ever just sat in my cube with me all day.  Does it happen, of course, you just gave an example.

But it is not how we are observed.  I think we can both agree on that.

 

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6 hours ago, teachercd said:

I am for merit pay too.

 

 

 

I was not confusing posters, I posted that reply to BigRed.

Oops. I will claim my notification steered me  wrong, when in reality, it's senility. :D

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:04 AM, funhusker said:

 

I’m a firm believer that school performance is a reflection of the parents/families of the district.

 

 

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

For the most part, I agree with this.  There is only so much a teacher can do with a student that doesn’t have the support at home also.  
 

I think the leadership at each individual school is pretty important too in order to provide a good learning environment.   We’ve had good principals and bad ones and as parents, you could tell the difference and so could the teachers we would talk with 


Yes, absolitely, school performance and teacher performance to some degree are highly attributable to the luck of the draw on students and their parents.

 

I’m certain many teachers in poor situations are much better teachers than many that are in the perfect district or school. This is one reason why any standard evaluation is almost impossible for teachers. It is reliant on factors outside the teachers control. The other thing that makes merit based raises tough is that most school districts don’t have extra money to throw at their best teachers. If the good ones get more money that would leave less for everyone else. Its different than most businesses because revenues don’t improve with exceptional performance. If they give out merit raises then all of sudden there are positions they can’t afford to staff.

 

We had a kid in the K-12 system for about the 19 consecutive years. In that time we experienced one bad (horrible really) elementary school teacher and a couple I would say that were marginal/poor. All the others were very good and quite a few who were amazing/exceptional. As far as principals, one was terrible (didn’t realize she was in an extremely good situation of students/parents and instead treated everyone like she was in some inner city s#!thole school), a bunch of average principals and a couple really good ones.

 

I have to agree with the majority here, bad teachers aren’t a huge problem but yes they need to be drummed out. And I see no way to fairly evaluate teachers other than to keep an eye on them to weed out any bad ones.  Unfortunately there usually isn’t enough money to reward them for performance. Maybe that will change someday.

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I have nothing to add, except this.

 

@BigRedBuster

@teachercd

@funhusker

and @GSG

 

I just finished reading page 26 thru 31, and it has been a fascinating discussion.  I get where Buster is coming from, but I really do hope all of our teachers here on HB get massive raises.  I can tell yall are really good at your jobs.  

 

Also, will try to add some upvotes later, and finish reading page 31-34 with some popcorn tonight.  

 

Sorry for the interruption, but I felt compelled to compliment yall. :)

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7 minutes ago, admo said:

I have nothing to add, except this.

 

@BigRedBuster

@teachercd

@funhusker

and @GSG

 

I just finished reading page 26 thru 31, and it has been a fascinating discussion.  I get where Buster is coming from, but I really do hope all of our teachers here on HB get massive raises.  I can tell yall are really good at your jobs.  

 

Also, will try to add some upvotes later, and finish reading page 31-34 with some popcorn tonight.  

 

Sorry for the interruption, but I felt compelled to compliment yall. :)

Thanks!  I would love more cash

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7 minutes ago, admo said:

I have nothing to add, except this.

 

@BigRedBuster

@teachercd

@funhusker

and @GSG

 

I just finished reading page 26 thru 31, and it has been a fascinating discussion.  I get where Buster is coming from, but I really do hope all of our teachers here on HB get massive raises.  I can tell yall are really good at your jobs.  

 

Also, will try to add some upvotes later, and finish reading page 31-34 with some popcorn tonight.  

 

Sorry for the interruption, but I felt compelled to compliment yall. :)

Even @teachercd ? His user name makes it obvious that he is only a C/D level teacher. :lol:

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I am an administrator at a private HS.  We had some type of merit pay.  We had it changed to a degree.  I didn't administer the program, other than dealing with the student surveys.  All student surveyed all of their teachers.  It was anonymous.  I never saw any of the info other than mine.  Only the principal and the teacher.  I would say my info was 100% accurate.  My principal said most of the student surveys were super accurate.

 

I am not sure exactly why they changed how the merit.  It is still there in some form.  The student surveys are no longer used.  I am told that our best teachers move up and our bottom ones don't move as much.

 

There are many reasons that merit pay could be tough to do in public schools including:

 

1)  Public schools are already under funded.  Will tax payers want to pay more for this?  In bad school districts, they can pass anything in their districts

 

2)  What will teacher unions say?

 

3)  Evals can be tough.  I think a lot of things in describing great teaching can be subjective. (although great teachers tend to love their kids, not sure how to measure?) In our program, our principal had to observe every teacher 3 times in a year.  That means pre-eval meeting and a post-eval meeting.  I couldn't help with the process.  It had to be the same person.  When he was in the middle of these, we never saw him.

 

Our entire country need for public schools to be great.  But public schools have a very a lot of issues going on in their schools.  EVERYBODY thinks they are an expert.  Politians want to run it, lawyers want to litigate it, parents want to protect little Johnny.  You have learning disabilities and behavioral problems.   You have extremely gifted kids who need to be challenged.

 

Also, it should be noted that the amount of time it takes to be a great teacher goes way beyond 40 hour weeks.  NOT EVEN CLOSE!  My wife is an elementary teacher.  I would bet she puts in about 70 to 80 hours a week.  And during Christmas break?  She works, during spring break?  She works.  They start school August 17th.  She started working 2 weeks ago in her classroom.

 

We are also Christian private school teachers.  We make a fraction of the money of our public school counterparts.  I am pretty sure that none of our administrators make over $100,000.  I think our teacher that is starting his 51st year makes under $60,000, but to be honest, I am not sure.  I just know how the pay scale used to work.  

 

I guess through all of my rambling, I am trying to say, there are no easy ways to fix the system.  And really, I am not sure what NEEDS to be fixed.  Where your school is will indicate how good the school is.

 

Anyway, I am headed to bed.  Long day coaching FB today and spent the afternoon ordering things for my school so we can have a smooth start.  Of course this was all on a Saturday.  Is that part of the work week?  No, but people in the education business don't get the luxury of 8 hour work days.

 

Good night!  

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10 hours ago, Crusader Husker said:

I am an administrator at a private HS.  We had some type of merit pay.  We had it changed to a degree.  I didn't administer the program, other than dealing with the student surveys.  All student surveyed all of their teachers.  It was anonymous.  I never saw any of the info other than mine.  Only the principal and the teacher.  I would say my info was 100% accurate.  My principal said most of the student surveys were super accurate.

 

I am not sure exactly why they changed how the merit.  It is still there in some form.  The student surveys are no longer used.  I am told that our best teachers move up and our bottom ones don't move as much.

 

There are many reasons that merit pay could be tough to do in public schools including:

 

1)  Public schools are already under funded.  Will tax payers want to pay more for this?  In bad school districts, they can pass anything in their districts

 

2)  What will teacher unions say?

 

3)  Evals can be tough.  I think a lot of things in describing great teaching can be subjective. (although great teachers tend to love their kids, not sure how to measure?) In our program, our principal had to observe every teacher 3 times in a year.  That means pre-eval meeting and a post-eval meeting.  I couldn't help with the process.  It had to be the same person.  When he was in the middle of these, we never saw him.

 

Our entire country need for public schools to be great.  But public schools have a very a lot of issues going on in their schools.  EVERYBODY thinks they are an expert.  Politians want to run it, lawyers want to litigate it, parents want to protect little Johnny.  You have learning disabilities and behavioral problems.   You have extremely gifted kids who need to be challenged.

 

Also, it should be noted that the amount of time it takes to be a great teacher goes way beyond 40 hour weeks.  NOT EVEN CLOSE!  My wife is an elementary teacher.  I would bet she puts in about 70 to 80 hours a week.  And during Christmas break?  She works, during spring break?  She works.  They start school August 17th.  She started working 2 weeks ago in her classroom.

 

We are also Christian private school teachers.  We make a fraction of the money of our public school counterparts.  I am pretty sure that none of our administrators make over $100,000.  I think our teacher that is starting his 51st year makes under $60,000, but to be honest, I am not sure.  I just know how the pay scale used to work.  

 

I guess through all of my rambling, I am trying to say, there are no easy ways to fix the system.  And really, I am not sure what NEEDS to be fixed.  Where your school is will indicate how good the school is.

 

Anyway, I am headed to bed.  Long day coaching FB today and spent the afternoon ordering things for my school so we can have a smooth start.  Of course this was all on a Saturday.  Is that part of the work week?  No, but people in the education business don't get the luxury of 8 hour work days.

 

Good night!  

Ordering things TODAY for a smooth start?  Do you guys start in March?!?! :P

 

Great post!

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21 hours ago, teachercd said:
22 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Just wondering, when your boss stops in does anyone in your office/cube/space throw things at you or tell you to f#&% off or refuse to listen to you or fall asleep or refuse to get off their phone?

No and that would suck.  I couldn’t ever be a teacher, I wouldn’t have the patience to deal with some of the kids you have to deal with.   

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