Huskers Fighting Big Trend

[In the Deed the Glory]

I love me some Tom Osborne, he is one of the greatest college football coaches of all time.  However, if Saban wins next week he will have 7 National Championships.

 

That's pretty tough to argue against.

[grapevine7]

Agree with the last post -  Osborne > Saban - in so many different ways.

 

Also agree with the title of the post -- the trend is undeniable.  Two decades ago, the trend only existed in baseball, but now is dominating the football landscape.  This is a Big Ten issue.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Acknowledging Saban's run does not take away from Tom Osborne. It just is what it is; an impressive feat Nebraska fans would take in a heartbeat. To assume Osborne's dynasty was somehow more pure requires selective memory.

 

Saban has also surpassed Bear Bryant. Bryant and Osborne will forever be legends, but it's okay and expected for others to move past them.

 

One more thing about warm weather and recruiting hotbeds: these are places in the country where youth and high school football is still deeply embedded in the culture. Participation in tackle football is waning around the country, and the places where Friday Night Lights still rule will turn out more better players who will prefer playing close to home. 

[ColoradoHusk]

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Acknowledging Saban's run does not take away from Tom Osborne. It just is what it is; an impressive feat Nebraska fans would take in a heartbeat. To assume Osborne's dynasty was somehow more pure requires selective memory.

 

Saban has also surpassed Bear Bryant. Bryant and Osborne will forever be legends, but it's okay and expected for others to move past them.

 

One more thing about warm weather and recruiting hotbeds: these are places in the country where youth and high school football is still deeply embedded in the culture. Participation in tackle football is waning around the country, and the places where Friday Night Lights still rule will turn out more better players who will prefer playing close to home. 

Piggybacking on the football embedded in the culture, the players living in empovershed areas of the South have more of an incentive to risk injury/brain damage to hit it big with a NFL contract.

[Nebhawk]

  We have let NFL talent leave this state in the last few years to play at Iowa and other nearby schools.  That has nothing to do with warm weather.  I think in the last ten years we had two guys go and star for KSU on the line.  We can point fingers at warm weather for being the culprit, but really it is bad recruiting and talent identifying.  We are not a hot bed of football talent, but we have enough talent leaving that has moved on to be elite at other programs.  Currently, the best two players at NDSU are from the Omaha area..............

 

Sure warm weather has some effect on recruiting, but it has always been that way.  Winning is what brings in recruits.  Winning on TV, in big games is what matters.  We haven't won games that matter for nearly a decade or longer.  Texas, OU, Buckeyes, and the Badgers.  Start beating those teams, and we will get more top notch recruits.  Keep losing those games, and we are at best a 8-4 program.  

[Huskers93-97]

It’s all about the coach. Southern teams lately have just done better by luring the elite coaches. Paying them the big bucks. 

 

Ohio state stepped up and up and paid Meyer- they got the success they paid for. 

 

Michigan is paying harbaugh- they have not hit it big yet but they are winning 10 every year and pulling in top 5 top 10 recruiting classes. 

 

Penn state pulling down top 10 classes. 

 

So talent still flows north- recruiting rankings prove that. But Meyer has been the only coach elite enough to topple the saban domination. 

 

I think we have transcendent coach in frost and once the talent gets here the narrative will slow down. But come on I think the weather and talent conversation has been around since the 80s. Wasn’t the national narrative that we were going to get run off the field by Florida in 95 cause we couldn’t play on grass? Florida was too fast? All the talent is moving south? Been hearing it for 30 years. We are just in a bad cycle the last 10 years

 

 

[Landlord]

4 hours ago, dvdcrr said:

There is no valid argument for Saban as best coach of all time.  

Put Tom Osborne at the head of that Alabama unscrupulous recruiting, and under the table funding scheme, with all that local talent, and I don't think he would have lost a single game in 6 or 7 years.  Put Nick Saban at NU in 1991.  would he have turned it around to go 60-3?   OH!  That's right!  He would have lied to all of us and then bailed like he did to the Miami fans:

"Nick Saban Only Lied When His Lips Were Moving"- ESPN

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2718798

 

 

OR OH!  Thats right!  He never would have come here in the first place!  Too tough of a challenge just like MIA was!

My Point:  You can't say that he is the best coach ever when his major successes have come at Alabama, a school absolutely drowning in local talent , and ruthless boosters.

Tom Osborne Won 3 National titles as head coach at Nebraska, had his team in at least three more, AND called the plays for two other championship teams. 

AT NEBRASKA, which is like barren of local schollies.

All Saban does is throw tantrums at everybody, and find other people to call the plays.  TO would RULE Saban  if they were forced to call their own plays.  

 

 

 

For there not being any valid argument for Saban as best coach of all time you sure spent a lot of time trying to come up with counter arguments and hearsay as to why he's definitely not.

[LaunchCode]

As long as the SEC keeps receiving a free pass in rankings for only playing 8 conference games then they will continue to have a large advantage over other conferences in the polls.

 

There should be an asterisk next to their records denoting "Only played 8 conference games".

 

[Landlord]

2 minutes ago, LaunchCode said:

As long as the SEC keeps receiving a free pass in rankings for only playing 8 conference games then they will continue to have a large advantage over other conferences in the polls.

 

There should be an asterisk next to their records denoting "Only played 8 conference games".

 

 

A lot of SEC schools have yearly OOC rivalries though. SC plays Clemson every year. Florida plays Florida State every year. Georgia plays....well, Georgia Tech

 

I agree they need to switch to 9 also but for a handful of them at least it's not like some unbelievable advantage because they still have a marquee OOC matchup that somewhat takes that place.

[LaunchCode]

40 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

A lot of SEC schools have yearly OOC rivalries though. SC plays Clemson every year. Florida plays Florida State every year. Georgia plays....well, Georgia Tech

 

I agree they need to switch to 9 also but for a handful of them at least it's not like some unbelievable advantage because they still have a marquee OOC matchup that somewhat takes that place.

Kentucky vs Louisville is another that comes to mind, but that still means three cupcake games and that's only a few of the 16 SEC teams.  

 

What many forget is a 9th conference game guarantees the conference will have more losses.  Half the teams will win that 9th game, half will lose.  That guarantees 7 extra losses for the B1G every year.  The SEC only playing 8 conference games means they can avoid the guaranteed 7 extra losses they'd have with a 9th conference game.

 

Which record looks better?  8-4* or 7-5 

 

Which is going to be ranked higher? 

 

Who are you going to get more credit for beating, the 8 win team or the 7 win team?

 

Until they play 9 conference games, put an asterisk behind their record.

 

*(only played 8 conference games)

 

 

 

[Huskers93-97]

6 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

A lot of SEC schools have yearly OOC rivalries though. SC plays Clemson every year. Florida plays Florida State every year. Georgia plays....well, Georgia Tech

 

I agree they need to switch to 9 also but for a handful of them at least it's not like some unbelievable advantage because they still have a marquee OOC matchup that somewhat takes that place.

Don’t most Big10 teams play 9 conference games plus another P5 game then 2 easy games? 

 

The SEC does 8 conference games with 3 or 4 easy games 

[HIHusker]

16 hours ago, funhusker said:

I’d like to amend.  Meyer may be one of the best coaches of “our” time.  Meanwhile, Saban is most likely the best college coach of “all” time.  

As much as I hate to admit it you might have a point here.  Hard to argue with his numbers.  Unreal.

[dvdcrr]

On 12/29/2018 at 11:22 AM, funhusker said:

Here is a More likely Trend:

 

Saban: 2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017

Meyer: 2006, 2008,2014

Saban: 2003
 

9 of the last 15 have been won by 2 coaches (at 4 different schools)

 

The other 6 have been by 6 different coaches at different schools that happen to be in warm weather.  At the same time Arizona, ASU, UCLA, Miami, Texas A&M, and 100 other warm weather schools haven't won a NC title.  I think it mostly comes down to coaching, and it is hard to argue that Saban and Meyer aren't two of the greatest college coaches of our time.  

 

If Saban were to go back to a school like Mich. St  and win two NC in a row or 2 in 3 years I would be convinced.  You win a bunch of titles at Alabama where 275 lb blue chip linemen are falling out of the wax myrtle and lob lollies.  Kind of waters it down for me.  I see a super focused man who throws tantrums.  Definitely gets results or you are fired.  But I see assistants calling his plays.  I see boosters and full staff ensuring the cupboard is stacked.  

No Saban is not the best of all time to me.  Has more to prove.  

I guess it would be like saying a certain race car driver is the best knowing he always had the fastest motor, and best pit crew.  Take that same coach and put him at Iowa.  Win 2 titles there, I am turning around.

[Landlord]

Knowing how to achieve and acquire the best pit crew and the fastest motor is part of being the best racer. Saban built that pit crew and that engine. Sure, he had easier access to all the parts than he would have in different scenarios but if that's the crux of the argument then Tom Osborne is also out of the running for best coach ever because he took over an elite program running on all cylinders. Osborne took over an elite team one year removed from winning a National Championship and it took him 22 years to win one himself. Would Osborne win two titles at Iowa or Michigan State? Hell no.

 

Sorry, that rationale just doesn't hold water and reeks of trying to justify not wanting to admit that Saban is the GOAT and finding a reason to convince yourself of it. 

 

LSU was a ~.500 program in the 20 years before Saban showed up and had 9, then 4, then 3 wins in the three years preceding him. Saban either built them into what they are now or got them back to it. Bama wasn't pulling in #1 recruiting classes or nationally relevant or even SEC relevant before Saban got there. They were a washed up, has been blue blood in the way that we are now, if not worse.

[dvdcrr]

Reasonable people can disagree. 

 

Tom never once embarassed any of us the way Nick embarrased himself by yelling at that female reporter like he was a fifth grader.  I guess he thinks if he yells loud enough he can get his way with everybody. 

 

Tom never lied and bailed like Saban did at Mia when the going got tough.

 

Greatest of all time? To me when he lines up against Dabo, Saban isn't even the best coach in the stadium.  And I know what happens when he lines up against TO.  We've seen that already.  Go ahead, let the excuse making start.