Trump's Fake Wall Emergency

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

 

As a little background on me, we open enrolled our kids in the high school with the highest percentage of Hispanics across town. We could’ve gone to the much newer school with way more white kids that was way closer to our home. We went across town because we felt that school offered the best teachers and academics in town, and it does/did. But I was shocked with the detrimental impact large numbers of illegal and new immigrants, lack of language skills and different culture can have on education. I’m not saying it’s all bad, some of it was good to be exposed to but it severely complicates the education process and diverts very large amounts of funds to tertiary efforts. And to be completely transparent, for middle school we open enrolled our 2nd child out of district, literally in another town to get away from what we experienced with our 1st kid in middle school. There is not a middle school in town that is not just buried in the crap caused by the immigration problem. It’s apparent at our hospital. It’s apparent in our local jail population. It’s apparent in what our police spend all their time on. That may all be anecdotal but it is reality here.

 

 

I probably shouldn’t have said anecdotes don’t matter. If they’re causing huge problems in specific areas of the country it still matters. Preventing them from crossing would be best but this whole thing kind of reminds me of Trump’s take on tariffs.

 

I’ve thought for a long time we should have put tariffs on in the 90s before American businesses were undercut but I thought doing it now was too late because the damage was already done. I feel that way about illegal immigration as well. It’s been decreasing for a long time. The best time for something like a wall would’ve been the mid 90s although I still don’t know that it would have been a good idea even then.

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, JJ Husker said:

There is not a middle school in town that is not just buried in the crap caused by the immigration problem. It’s apparent at our hospital. It’s apparent in our local jail population. It’s apparent in what our police spend all their time on. That may all be anecdotal but it is reality here. 

 

Are the people you're talking about here illegals?

[JJ Husker]

28 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Are the people you're talking about here illegals?

Some are, some aren't. Some may just be newer legal immigrants and for all I know, some may have been here longer than my ancestors and somehow decided learning the English language was not in their best interest. I do know for a fact that some in our school system are undocumented. I guess it's a bit convenient to lump all the problems of immigration and call it an illegal problem. I try to avoid doing that, but it's easy to do with the problems.

[knapplc]

Just now, JJ Husker said:

Some are, some aren't. Some may just be newer legal immigrants and for all I know, some may have been here longer than my ancestors and somehow decided learning the English language was not in their best interest. I do know for a fact that some in our school system are undocumented. I guess it's a bit convenient to lump all the problems of immigration and call it an illegal problem. I try to avoid doing that, but it's easy to do with the problems.

 

I've seen people talking about the kinds of problems you're talking about here - basically, assimilation of foreigners into American culture. It can be a big problem, especially if all parties involved aren't interested in assimilating. 

[JJ Husker]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

I've seen people talking about the kinds of problems you're talking about here - basically, assimilation of foreigners into American culture. It can be a big problem, especially if all parties involved aren't interested in assimilating. 

Unfortunately it requires a conscious effort to refrain from lumping all brown people problems under the category of illegal immigration. Well, maybe that is not the unfortunate thing. The unfortunate thing is way too many don't make that effort. There's good and bad of all colors. I'm sure we've gained just as many or more good people from illegal immigration as we have bad one's. It's just that the bad apples tend to stick out.

[TonyStalloni]

5 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I probably shouldn’t have said anecdotes don’t matter. If they’re causing huge problems in specific areas of the country it still matters. Preventing them from crossing would be best but this whole thing kind of reminds me of Trump’s take on tariffs.

 

I’ve thought for a long time we should have put tariffs on in the 90s before American businesses were undercut but I thought doing it now was too late because the damage was already done. I feel that way about illegal immigration as well. It’s been decreasing for a long time. The best time for something like a wall would’ve been the mid 90s although I still don’t know that it would have been a good idea even then.

When I looked at the graph that said current levels are at 1973 levels it looks good on the surface.  I also noticed the after 1973 levels increased drastically for 6 to 7 years.  Who is to say another wave of illegals coming from Latin America and caused by who knows what will not surge this way in a year, 2 years or 5 years.  I would like to see the wall built now when we have a president who is willing to see it get built and not one who wants to benefit from not having it.

[funhusker]

46 minutes ago, TonyStalloni said:

When I looked at the graph that said current levels are at 1973 levels it looks good on the surface.  I also noticed the after 1973 levels increased drastically for 6 to 7 years.  Who is to say another wave of illegals coming from Latin America and caused by who knows what will not surge this way in a year, 2 years or 5 years.  I would like to see the wall built now when we have a president who is willing to see it get built and not one who wants to benefit from not having it.

But it takes more than just a willing President.  It takes money that should be appropriated by Congress and that requires a willing Congress.  This thread isn't about the need for a wall, it should be about the President working well outside of his authority to achieve his goals.  Remember when people were so upset about the thought of Obama working on the TPP deal without Congress.  That was tinker toys compared to this....

[BigRedBuster]

5 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Some are, some aren't. Some may just be newer legal immigrants and for all I know, some may have been here longer than my ancestors and somehow decided learning the English language was not in their best interest. I do know for a fact that some in our school system are undocumented. I guess it's a bit convenient to lump all the problems of immigration and call it an illegal problem. I try to avoid doing that, but it's easy to do with the problems.

I have lived around a lot of immigrants. I can honestly say, I have never experienced immigrants children not being able to eventually speak English. They are usually the translators for the parents...if they are having problems understanding. 

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, TonyStalloni said:

When I looked at the graph that said current levels are at 1973 levels it looks good on the surface.  I also noticed the after 1973 levels increased drastically for 6 to 7 years.  Who is to say another wave of illegals coming from Latin America and caused by who knows what will not surge this way in a year, 2 years or 5 years.  I would like to see the wall built now when we have a president who is willing to see it get built and not one who wants to benefit from not having it.

 

If one is going to be built, I would prefer it be done by a president who fosters honest debate instead of creating a fake crisis with lies and deceit and demonizing an entire race. 

 

If we we need a wall, it should be able to stand on its own merit instead of with all that crap. 

[TonyStalloni]

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

If one is going to be built, I would prefer it be done by a president who fosters honest debate instead of creating a fake crisis with lies and deceit and demonizing an entire race. 

 

If we we need a wall, it should be able to stand on its own merit instead of with all that crap. 

Maybe one day we will have a Congress that is willing to have an honest debate and show a willingness to give and take until an agreement is reached and all parties leave the table with something they want.

[JJ Husker]

43 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have lived around a lot of immigrants. I can honestly say, I have never experienced immigrants children not being able to eventually speak English. They are usually the translators for the parents...if they are having problems understanding. 

 

That part of my statement was made tongue in cheek to cover every possible base. I don't think any that have been here for more than a generation have failed to learn the language. I do know many though that the kids translate for the parents and the parents seem totally disinterested in learning the language. I would guess when they come here not able to speak English, the kids pick it up very fast because they go to school and many of the parents don't make the effort because they can just rely on their kids.

[BigRedBuster]

12 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

 

That part of my statement was made tongue in cheek to cover every possible base. I don't think any that have been here for more than a generation have failed to learn the language. I do know many though that the kids translate for the parents and the parents seem totally disinterested in learning the language. I would guess when they come here not able to speak English, the kids pick it up very fast because they go to school and many of the parents don't make the effort because they can just rely on their kids.

 

Learning a new language when you’re older is harder and not everyone has the ability to do it. 

 

My opinion is that most of the “won’t assimilate” mantra is a bunch of BS made up for political reasons. 

 

Very seldom do you find anyone who doesn’t learn some English. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, TonyStalloni said:

Maybe one day we will have a Congress that is willing to have an honest debate and show a willingness to give and take until an agreement is reached and all parties leave the table with something they want.

 

So, if Congress doesn’t give the president what he wants, that’s good reason to lie and make up facts to get what he wants?

[TonyStalloni]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

So, if Congress doesn’t give the president what he wants, that’s good reason to lie and make up facts to get what he wants?

Congress will never make a decision on anything now.  They don't want to offend anyone.  There are times I wish DT would be a bit more presidential but that isn't his style.....and frankly it is REFRESHING.

[RedDenver]

12 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

However, I do think it's ridiculous that we do not have a much better and complete border barrier there already.  IMO it needs to be imposing enough to prevent the majority from even trying. And that's not just strictly to keep them out but also to prevent the journey and attempt which is very dangerous for the elderly, weak, babies etc.

Have you considered that such a barrier is not possible? Desperate people will do desperate things. Plus, walls haven't been effective for keeping people out for centuries. Even pregnant women have been able to scale the border wall just a few months ago.

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/borders-and-walls-do-barriers-deter-unauthorized-migration

Quote

Contrary to popular belief, the famous sections of stone walls in the mountains near Beijing were not built during the time of the Roman Empire, but rather in the late 16th century during the Ming Dynasty. These walls also failed and were overrun within a few decades of their construction. As late as the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s, Chinese peasants were encouraged to dismantle the wall to use the stones for a more productive purpose. The remaining sections were otherwise largely ignored until discovered by Western travelers, who marveled at them and coined the term “Great Wall” (the Chinese simply called them “long walls”). Only in the past few decades, as the myth of a Great Wall grew, have a few sections been rebuilt to serve as tourist attractions.

 

Pregnant Migrant Woman Gives Birth on U.S. Soil 24 Hours After Climbing Border Wall

 

Test of steel prototype for border wall showed it could be sawed through
 

Quote

 

The Trump administration directed the construction of eight steel and concrete prototype walls that were built in Otay Mesa, California, just across the border from Tijuana, Mexico. Trump inspected the prototypes in March 2018. He has now settled on a steel slat, or steel bollard, design for the proposed border barrier additions. Steel bollard fencing has been used under previous administrations.

However, testing by DHS in late 2017 showed all eight prototypes, including the steel slats, were vulnerable to breaching, according to an internal February 2018 U.S. Customs and Border Protection report.

 

(emphasis mine)