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High School Shot Clock

Should there be a shot clock in high school basketball?  

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There is a lot of discussion going around about this. Do you think that there needs to be a shot clock in high school basketball? I coach and I will say that there are very few times when a shot clock would have even come in to play. The only time that it would matter would be at the end of a close game when a team wants to stall. What are your thoughts?

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Absolutely totally against it for one reason.  It would require every single game to have yet another person running the clock.  Some schools have would have issues finding people to do it.  AND...then to find someone who actually does it well.

 

Seems to me to be a recipe for a mess.

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Absolutely totally against it for one reason.  It would require every single game to have yet another person running the clock.  Some schools have would have issues finding people to do it.  AND...then to find someone who actually does it well.

 

Seems to me to be a recipe for a mess.

I agree with you. There would be so many schools that would have someone running the shot clock that would forget to reset it or do it at the wrong time. It would be an absolute disaster at a lot of schools.

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Yes, it should be set at 30 seconds, and the NSAA should help small school districts pay for it. 

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Just now, Cdog923 said:

Yes, it should be set at 30 seconds, and the NSAA should help small school districts pay for it. 

The initial cost might be bad for some schools, but I don't really see that as an issue. I've coached at a lot of places that have clock operators that either forget to start the clock or stop the clock quite a bit. I can see a lot of issues with people forgetting to reset the shot clock. I think it would be interesting for someone to watch games next year and keep track of how long it takes teams to actually shoot. I'm guessing that shot clock violations would be very few in high school sports.

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There needs to be a shot clock in high school. It should be either 24 seconds or 30 seconds. It will help increase the flow and stop teams from just playing keep away for the last 3 minutes of the game.

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19 minutes ago, The Murphinator said:

There needs to be a shot clock in high school. It should be either 24 seconds or 30 seconds. It will help increase the flow and stop teams from just playing keep away for the last 3 minutes of the game.

If there is a shot clock, it definitely needs to be longer than 24 seconds. At the high school level, we are still trying to teach skills and how to effectively run an offense. There would be a lot of teams that would have to chuck up shots and that would definitely hinder the game. 

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I think that once it was in...it would change the game a bit.  I think the excuses as to why it can't work are lame but I get it.  

 

Most teams don't just milk the clock like back in the day.

 

I get the "who would run the clock" but it really isn't that hard to either have a ref do it with a remote clicker and/or a teacher do it for 20 dollars a game.  Could there be mistakes?  Sure...but it happens all the time on every single play where a ball goes out of bounds or a TO is called.  It is not like it is ever 100% in sync.  

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11 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

If there is a shot clock, it definitely needs to be longer than 24 seconds. At the high school level, we are still trying to teach skills and how to effectively run an offense. There would be a lot of teams that would have to chuck up shots and that would definitely hinder the game. 

That is why I said 30. I would prefer a 30 second shot clock, but wouldn't be upset with a 24 second shot clock

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4 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I think that once it was in...it would change the game a bit.  I think the excuses as to why it can't work are lame but I get it.  

 

Most teams don't just milk the clock like back in the day.

 

I get the "who would run the clock" but it really isn't that hard to either have a ref do it with a remote clicker and/or a teacher do it for 20 dollars a game.  Could there be mistakes?  Sure...but it happens all the time on every single play where a ball goes out of bounds or a TO is called.  It is not like it is ever 100% in sync.  

I don't know about having a ref run the clock with a remote clicker. They have enough to worry about without having to remember to restart the shot clock every time.

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There should be a shot clock.  I think 40 seconds would be appropriate for high school, especially initially.  Maybe shorten it after it's been around for awhile.

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

There should be a shot clock.  I think 40 seconds would be appropriate for high school, especially initially.  Maybe shorten it after it's been around for awhile.

I would be ok with 40 seconds if it had to be added. Thinking back to our season though, and we played 25 games, I can only think of about 2 or 3 games and only a few times when a shot clock violation would have even come in to play. It doesn't happen as much as some people think. 

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31 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I don't know about having a ref run the clock with a remote clicker. They have enough to worry about without having to remember to restart the shot clock every time.

Why don't you quit yelling at them during the game!  Then it would not be difficult for them at all!  hahaha

28 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I would be ok with 40 seconds if it had to be added. Thinking back to our season though, and we played 25 games, I can only think of about 2 or 3 games and only a few times when a shot clock violation would have even come in to play. It doesn't happen as much as some people think. 

In college it is a huge deal if you get 2-3 violations a game.  So I think you are right, in HS it really would not happen as much as some people think,

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1 minute ago, teachercd said:

Why don't you quit yelling at them during the game!  Then it would not be difficult for them at all!  hahaha

I've only received one technical in all of my years of coaching basketball and it wasn't for yelling at the ref. I was "politely" asking him to start calling fouls when my girl is shoved three or four feet in the lane and he told me to be quiet. I rolled my eyes and looked away and he gave me a technical and said that he wasn't going to let me roll my eyes at him! Needless to say that I almost got thrown out at that point because I was once again "politely" arguing about his call and he almost threw me out. :)

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Yes and I said other just to have it be 35.  A bit longer than college makes sense to me.

 

If it is going to be a cost issue for small schools let Class D opt out if they want.

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1 hour ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

If there is a shot clock, it definitely needs to be longer than 24 seconds. At the high school level, we are still trying to teach skills and how to effectively run an offense. There would be a lot of teams that would have to chuck up shots and that would definitely hinder the game. 

This is another big issue.

 

My son just got done playing 4 years of HS basketball.  I really don't think time to put up a shot is a major issue in HS basketball right now.  In fact, we have a hard enough time to get kids to actually run a play instead of trying to hotdog it like some NBA player they see.

 

Offenses in HS should be encouraged to be developed instead of pushed out with a shot clock.  Teach the skill of understanding offensive philosophy.  

 

The only time I see an issue is when one team tries to run out the clock on the last few minutes of half or the game.  So what???  Go play defense or foul them.  Make them shoot free throws to win it?

 

I just really don't see a need for this.  If they do put this in, it needs to be a lot of time like 40 seconds or more.  DEFINITELY shouldn't be shorter than college.

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33 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This is another big issue.

 

My son just got done playing 4 years of HS basketball.  I really don't think time to put up a shot is a major issue in HS basketball right now.  In fact, we have a hard enough time to get kids to actually run a play instead of trying to hotdog it like some NBA player they see.

 

Offenses in HS should be encouraged to be developed instead of pushed out with a shot clock.  Teach the skill of understanding offensive philosophy.  

 

The only time I see an issue is when one team tries to run out the clock on the last few minutes of half or the game.  So what???  Go play defense or foul them.  Make them shoot free throws to win it?

 

I just really don't see a need for this.  If they do put this in, it needs to be a lot of time like 40 seconds or more.  DEFINITELY shouldn't be shorter than college.

I agree with everything you said. I coach and I'm definitely against a shot clock. It's just not enough of an issue in my mind. I agree that teams just need to learn to get steals or foul if they need the ball at the end of a game. 

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1 hour ago, teachercd said:

In college it is a huge deal if you get 2-3 violations a game.  So I think you are right, in HS it really would not happen as much as some people think,

 

Yeah, but how many times per game do the Huskers have to chuck up a bad shot just to avoid the shot clock violation?

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Just now, Mavric said:

 

Yeah, but how many times per game do the Huskers have to chuck up a bad shot just to avoid the shot clock violation?

It is hard to tell, I have not seen them put up a "good" shot in so long...I have nothing to compare it to.

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Just now, Mavric said:

 

Yeah, but how many times per game do the Huskers have to chuck up a bad shot just to avoid the shot clock violation?

 

 

And that's NOT what you want to be teaching HS kids.

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

And that's NOT what you want to be teaching HS kids.

Any HS coach that coached that way would be locked up for child abuse!  hahaha

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1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

And that's NOT what you want to be teaching HS kids.

 

Yes and no.  Every argument for why you don't want the offense to be forced into something has an equal and opposite argument about playing good, hard defense.

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Yes and no.  Every argument for why you don't want the offense to be forced into something has an equal and opposite argument about playing good, hard defense.

 

You want kids in HS to be learning an offense and learning what is a good shot to take and what not to take.  That is made much more difficult when you then put the pressure in of a shot clock.  HS kids should not be forced into throwing up crappy shots just because a clock is running down.  Make them work the ball with passing and player movement to get open for good fundamental shots.

 

 

 

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

You want kids in HS to be learning an offense and learning what is a good shot to take and what not to take.  That is made much more difficult when you then put the pressure in of a shot clock.  HS kids should not be forced into throwing up crappy shots just because a clock is running down.  Make them work the ball with passing and player movement to get open for good fundamental shots.

 

That's fine.  You continue to refuse to acknowledge anything about defense but whatever.

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

That's fine.  You continue to refuse to acknowledge anything about defense but whatever.

I'm not sure what defense has to do with this.  No matter if you have the shot clock or not, you teach good hard defense.  

 

Again, from the discussion earlier, this really isn't an issue in HS basketball other than maybe a few minutes through out the entire game.  And, I did acknowledge defense in the following quote.

 

 

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

The only time I see an issue is when one team tries to run out the clock on the last few minutes of half or the game.  So what???  Go play defense or foul them.  Make them shoot free throws to win it?

 

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31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm not sure what defense has to do with this.  No matter if you have the shot clock or not, you teach good hard defense.  

 

Again, from the discussion earlier, this really isn't an issue in HS basketball other than maybe a few minutes through out the entire game.  And, I did acknowledge defense in the following quote.

 

 

 

I think that he is saying that a shot clock could reward good defense, which I do agree with. I would only be on board with a shot clock if it was 40 seconds or more. 

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I guess I kind of get what BRB is saying but if you can't find/realize what a good shot is in 30 seconds, you and your team probably suck.  Like Sandhills said, the shot clock violation really would not come into play all that often.

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1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm not sure what defense has to do with this.  No matter if you have the shot clock or not, you teach good hard defense.  

 

And you don't have to be able to have the ball for an extended period of time to teach good offense.  You're always only acknowledging the part of the argument that fits your point of view.

 

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Again, from the discussion earlier, this really isn't an issue in HS basketball other than maybe a few minutes through out the entire game.  And, I did acknowledge defense in the following quote.

 

Mentioning the word defense in the context of end-game strategy is not the same thing as including it in the overall discussion of whether a shot clock belongs in the game or not.

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

And you don't have to be able to have the ball for an extended period of time to teach good offense.  You're always only acknowledging the part of the argument that fits your point of view.

 

 

Mentioning the word defense in the context of end-game strategy is not the same thing as including it in the overall discussion of whether a shot clock belongs in the game or not.

 

Are you trying to say what Sandhill Said?

 

57 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I think that he is saying that a shot clock could reward good defense, which I do agree with. I would only be on board with a shot clock if it was 40 seconds or more. 

 

 

If so, I can see that.  However, like has been said a number of times in the thread, this shot clock is not going to come into play very often in a game.  I think the chance for a total mess up of the clock is not worth what the upside is.

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

If so, I can see that.  However, like has been said a number of times in the thread, this shot clock is not going to come into play very often in a game.  I think the chance for a total mess up of the clock is not worth what the upside is.

 

If it's not going to come into play very much, then why are you so adamant that it's going to mess up kids offensive development?

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I'm sorry but anyone against implementing a shot clock in HS is delusional. It does nothing but HELP the game of basketball. That is the way it is intended to be played. The flow of the game would be so much better and keeps the crappy teams from holding the ball all the time. I've watched several games this state tournament in Iowa with real low scoring. It shouldn't matter if it only would come up 'x' amount of times during a season. It also rewards teams that play hard defense, no one wants to run around for 50 seconds on a possession.

 

35 High School (40 girls) 

30 College
24 Pro 

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42 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:

I'm sorry but anyone against implementing a shot clock in HS is delusional. It does nothing but HELP the game of basketball. That is the way it is intended to be played. The flow of the game would be so much better and keeps the crappy teams from holding the ball all the time. I've watched several games this state tournament in Iowa with real low scoring. It shouldn't matter if it only would come up 'x' amount of times during a season. It also rewards teams that play hard defense, no one wants to run around for 50 seconds on a possession.

 

35 High School (40 girls) 

30 College
24 Pro 

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that you don't coach. This is wrong for many reasons. I'm not totally against a shot clock but it is far from what you state that it does nothing but help the game. It would only really be an issue of a shot clock violation very few times in the season any way. I would be willing to guess that most high school teams in the state of Nebraska shoot the ball within 40 seconds of their possession at least 90% of the time. I would have said higher, but I think it's at least 90%. The only reason that people dwell on the times that some teams stall is because it is at a point in the game where it is really memorable. As a coach, I encourage my players to get the ball if the other team is stalling. That means go for a steal or get a foul and stop the clock.

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should have implemented this 6 yrs ago and made it 15 seconds long. just think of how much local talent miles would have had at his disposal that already knew how to play his offense.

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54 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that you don't coach. This is wrong for many reasons. I'm not totally against a shot clock but it is far from what you state that it does nothing but help the game. It would only really be an issue of a shot clock violation very few times in the season any way. I would be willing to guess that most high school teams in the state of Nebraska shoot the ball within 40 seconds of their possession at least 90% of the time. I would have said higher, but I think it's at least 90%. The only reason that people dwell on the times that some teams stall is because it is at a point in the game where it is really memorable. As a coach, I encourage my players to get the ball if the other team is stalling. That means go for a steal or get a foul and stop the clock.


I know for a fact that it happens way more often than you think. If you have a 35 second shot clock teams are going to shoot the ball within 30 seconds which only helps the flow of the game as I mentioned before. There have been many many times in on year where a team is up lets say 6 points with under 3 minutes left. The only option is to hope to get a steal otherwise it is a complete foul fest the last several minutes when it shouldn't have to be that way. Shot clock creates more possessions overall for a HS game that only has 8 minute quarters. I don't get why people would be against it when I see 500 positives and little or no negatives. 

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14 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:


I know for a fact that it happens way more often than you think. If you have a 35 second shot clock teams are going to shoot the ball within 30 seconds which only helps the flow of the game as I mentioned before. There have been many many times in on year where a team is up lets say 6 points with under 3 minutes left. The only option is to hope to get a steal otherwise it is a complete foul fest the last several minutes when it shouldn't have to be that way. Shot clock creates more possessions overall for a HS game that only has 8 minute quarters. I don't get why people would be against it when I see 500 positives and little or no negatives. 

I know for a fact that it happens way less than what you think. There would not be close to 500 positives, there would be 1 which would be that teams couldn't stall as easily at the end of a quarter. If a team is up by 6 with 3 minutes to go and they start to stall, then you go for steals or foul. It's called game play and some teams are better at it than others.

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5 minutes ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I know for a fact that it happens way less than what you think. There would not be close to 500 positives, there would be 1 which would be that teams couldn't stall as easily at the end of a quarter. If a team is up by 6 with 3 minutes to go and they start to stall, then you go for steals or foul. It's called game play and some teams are better at it than others.

 

Shouldn't have to come down to that. Teams should have more opportunities like college and the NBA. Only argument I've seen is "doesn't happen often" 

 

I've watched games on the east coast with it implemented and it makes for a much better game. It will come down the pipe eventually 

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7 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:

 

Shouldn't have to come down to that. Teams should have more opportunities like college and the NBA. Only argument I've seen is "doesn't happen often" 

 

I've watched games on the east coast with it implemented and it makes for a much better game. It will come down the pipe eventually 

I agree with you that it will eventually come to it, I'm just saying that it's not as big of an issue that a lot of people are trying to turn it in to. And even with a shot clock teams will still have the stall game going on at the end of a half and teams will still have to foul or get steals. It happens all the time in college.

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1 hour ago, BIG ERN said:

The only option is to hope to get a steal

Isn't that rewarding good defense?

 

You talked earlier about the need for this because of low scoring games.  Isn't rewarding the defense going to exacerbate that?

 

Wouldn't you want to promote offenses working to the get best shot they can?

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1 hour ago, SandhillshuskerW said:

I know for a fact that it happens way less than what you think. There would not be close to 500 positives, there would be 1 which would be that teams couldn't stall as easily at the end of a quarter. If a team is up by 6 with 3 minutes to go and they start to stall, then you go for steals or foul. It's called game play and some teams are better at it than others.

I coach and my positive for a shot clock would be if it speeds up the game.  I coach reserve...so I want those freaking games over with FAST!  Hahaha

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25 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Isn't that rewarding good defense?

 

You talked earlier about the need for this because of low scoring games.  Isn't rewarding the defense going to exacerbate that?

 

Wouldn't you want to promote offenses working to the get best shot they can?


If you play hard defense for 30 seconds and force a bad shot how is that not rewarding? Today, you can do that then the offense throw it back up top and set something else up for another 30 seconds if they wanted to. 

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3 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:


If you play hard defense for 30 seconds and force a bad shot how is that not rewarding? Today, you can do that then the offense throw it back up top and set something else up for another 30 seconds if they wanted to. 

That scenario happens very few times in a game in HS basketball.

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12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

That scenario happens very few times in a game in HS basketball.


I honestly don't get what games ppl watch. I'm not stating teams hold the ball all game but to say very little is def wrong. I've watched 12 state tournament games so far and have seen it plenty of times whether it was the end of the quarter, game, or in between. 

 

Hell I would even take the ELAM rule over no shot clock. 

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41 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:


I honestly don't get what games ppl watch. I'm not stating teams hold the ball all game but to say very little is def wrong. I've watched 12 state tournament games so far and have seen it plenty of times whether it was the end of the quarter, game, or in between. 

 

Hell I would even take the ELAM rule over no shot clock. 

My son graduated last year and he played 4 years...year round including AAU.

 

On average, MAYBE this happens for one possession at the end of each quarter.  I even think that's a stretch.  So, that's 4 possessions per game.  How many possessions do think are in a game?

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3 hours ago, teachercd said:

I coach and my positive for a shot clock would be if it speeds up the game.  I coach reserve...so I want those freaking games over with FAST!  Hahaha

I do agree with that! Some of those games can seem painfully long.

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There 100% needs to be some sort of a shot clock in high school. Some of the shoe circuits in the summer AAU season have adopted a 30 second shot clock. Now not every summer basketball player is going to play in college but lets not hinder the ones that are good enough. 

 

The biggest adjustment that could be made to help HS hoops is going to either 18 or 20 minute halves or potentially maybe making the switch to 4 10 minute quarters. I think making a change to one of those 2 options would be more beneficial than adding a shot clock. 

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15 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

My son graduated last year and he played 4 years...year round including AAU.

 

On average, MAYBE this happens for one possession at the end of each quarter.  I even think that's a stretch.  So, that's 4 possessions per game.  How many possessions do think are in a game?


I actually played basketball my whole life, not just watched my kids. We played a team 3x in one season, first two games the avg score totals were around 115. Once we played them in districts the total score was 76 becuase they knew if you limit possessions your chances are better to win against a superior opponent. I've seen the top class stall and win State title 36-32 when the other team had two D1 players on it. Idc if it happens once a year, no reason this should be part of the game. "It doesn't happen often IMO so who cares" isn't a good argument. 

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3 hours ago, BIG ERN said:

I actually played basketball my whole life, not just watched my kids. We played a team 3x in one season, first two games the avg score totals were around 115. Once we played them in districts the total score was 76 becuase they knew if you limit possessions your chances are better to win against a superior opponent. I've seen the top class stall and win State title 36-32 when the other team had two D1 players on it. Idc if it happens once a year, no reason this should be part of the game. "It doesn't happen often IMO so who cares" isn't a good argument. 

Sorry I didn't mention I played and was involved in HS basketball too with a coach that's now in the Nebraska hall of fame.  Didn't think that was really relevant.  But....now that we have that out in the open.

 

Let me ask you this.  When I was coming up through middle school and high school in the 70s and 80s, there wasn't a shot clock.  There wasn't a three point line.  We had shorts that barely made it to mid thigh.  I remember games where total scores were 160+.  I remember some games where I was wondering if our team was going to go over 100.  Never did.  But came close. This also wasn't abnormal.  Sure, we had those games where we would score in the 50s.  But, it wasn't abnormal for us to score in the 70s or 80s.  

 

What's changed?  Why do we all of a sudden need a shot clock so we can have scoring?  I'll give you my opinion.  Basketball offenses suck now days along with fundamentals.  Maybe we need a shot clock so that you don't have to sit through a game with a total score in the 70s.  But, it's just a bandaid that is covering up the real problem.  

 

Develop and teach real basketball team offense that includes good player movement and ball movement to go with it to get open shots or easy back door layups.  Stop promoting individual kids to be hot dogs.  And...for CHRIST'S SAKE....teach a kid that when you're at the basket, put the ball up instead of always having to dish it back out to some hot dog at the three point line to lob up a prayer.

 

I loved watching my son play and he had a very successful career in HS.  But, I'll agree with you with one thing, the overall product on the floor sucks....I just don't think it's a lack of a shot clock issue and I actually think that, in the big picture, it will promote even less development of offenses.  

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South Dakota added the shot clock a few years ago, its 35 seconds and each class (AA,A,B) all use it.  Haven't heard of any issues from it 

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5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Sorry I didn't mention I played and was involved in HS basketball too with a coach that's now in the Nebraska hall of fame.  Didn't think that was really relevant.  But....now that we have that out in the open.

 

Let me ask you this.  When I was coming up through middle school and high school in the 70s and 80s, there wasn't a shot clock.  There wasn't a three point line.  We had shorts that barely made it to mid thigh.  I remember games where total scores were 160+.  I remember some games where I was wondering if our team was going to go over 100.  Never did.  But came close. This also wasn't abnormal.  Sure, we had those games where we would score in the 50s.  But, it wasn't abnormal for us to score in the 70s or 80s.  

 

What's changed?  Why do we all of a sudden need a shot clock so we can have scoring?  I'll give you my opinion.  Basketball offenses suck now days along with fundamentals.  Maybe we need a shot clock so that you don't have to sit through a game with a total score in the 70s.  But, it's just a bandaid that is covering up the real problem.  

 

Develop and teach real basketball team offense that includes good player movement and ball movement to go with it to get open shots or easy back door layups.  Stop promoting individual kids to be hot dogs.  And...for CHRIST'S SAKE....teach a kid that when you're at the basket, put the ball up instead of always having to dish it back out to some hot dog at the three point line to lob up a prayer.

 

I loved watching my son play and he had a very successful career in HS.  But, I'll agree with you with one thing, the overall product on the floor sucks....I just don't think it's a lack of a shot clock issue and I actually think that, in the big picture, it will promote even less development of offenses.  

I agree with most of this. My brother and I graduated high school 4 years apart and both of our teams were successful given what our high school boys basketball history was. The team my senior year tried to make every game a track meet and to be honest we were terrible at trying to stall. My brothers team walked the ball up the floor every possession. Not sure what caused the coach to completely change philosophies over the years but it was 2 totally different teams.

 

And while fundamentals are taking a hit in HS basketball, one could argue the bigger issue is coaches needing to be too involved in the game. If you have good enough players let them play and let the athletes be athletes. Too much needing to call a set offense every possession. The biggest thing al shot clock would do would is it would force coaches to let the game be more free flowing which would be hard for most. 

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