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Is there any diversity of political thought on this site?


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I've posted here for a couple days now, and see absolute no one with any diversity of political ideology here.  Please are there any common sense MAGA conservatives here?  Come out of hiding and show your face!  Yesterday I said it looks like a one pony show here and a poster said no it isn't.  The only think I've seen is to what degree of liberal people are.  There isn't even a middle of the road person that I've seen.  I will say that you people are polite and I appreciate that. Also I think that people sincerely mean the best from their view point.

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not everyone who dislikes trump is a liberal...unless you are looking through extreme alt right glasses.  and to be honest judging from the sights you say you get your news from and what you post here....you are looking through some very far right wing glasses.   

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You know how when people say "LOL" online, they are just saying that and not really laughing out loud. Well, seeing this thread title from this guy literally made me LOL. So thanks for that this morning. Then reading the phrase "common sense MAGA conservative" really blew my mind.

 

However, if you are seriously interested in reasonable discussion, can you start by answering a few questions yourself?

1. What does "Make America Great Again" mean to you?

2. What values do conservatives and/or the Republican party currently stand for?

3. What are some of your personal values?

4. Since you used the word "diversity" here, what does that word mean to you - not only in terms of political thought, as well as cultural, ethnic, racial, socio-economic (etc) diversity?

 

For decades, conservatives and Republicans stood for (or at least claimed to stand for) fiscal responsibility, family values, and personal accountability. Trump's brand of politics does not embody any of those values, and when the party allowed Trump to walk right in and take over, most conservative politicians stopped even pretending to care about those values. Trump supporters are hitching their wagon to a racist, a narcissist, a compulsive liar, a philanderer, and if not a proven criminal himself, at least someone who surrounds himself with criminals and corruption. He eschews the advice of experts, he eschews science, he eschews all traditional decorum and dignity, he throws tantrums on social media, he mocks and belittles anyone who does not identify with him. What about that comes across as common sense or conservative?

 

Nothing that I've said here has anything to do with actual conservative policy, either. There is plenty of room for policy discussion among reasonable people who disagree. And a lot of that has happened on this board. But most of us, including the conservatives on this board who actively participate, realize that this president is a dangerous lunatic. It would be nice to get back to actual conservatives who want to address real issues in a civilized way, but Trump and his supporters have changed the nature of discourse.

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40 minutes ago, MNBigRedNorth said:

I've posted here for a couple days now, and see absolute no one with any diversity of political ideology here.  Please are there any common sense MAGA conservatives here?  Come out of hiding and show your face!  Yesterday I said it looks like a one pony show here and a poster said no it isn't.  The only think I've seen is to what degree of liberal people are.  There isn't even a middle of the road person that I've seen.  I will say that you people are polite and I appreciate that. Also I think that people sincerely mean the best from their view point.

This might be your problem.  I don't have any stats to back this up, just an anecdote.  But my Dad lives in Pierce County, one of the strongest Trump supporting counties in the 2016 election in nation.  When he goes to coffee in the morning the guys, who proudly voted for Trump, no longer want to talk about national news.  Why?  Because they freely admit they voted for Trump as a vote against Clinton.  They don't like the guy, they think he's a clown.  He's just better than the alternative.

 

Now these same people want border security.  They want anti-abortion legislation.  They want lower taxes.  They want a fiscally responsible government.  And a few are openly against Muslims, LGBT, and any other non-white non-Christian.  They all hate "liberals". And most importantly they want life the way it was back in 1960 when they were kids and everything was groovy and the family farms were enough to support their families.  But they also have given up on Trump getting them that.  But they'll vote for him again because he's Republican.

 

Like I said, a very small snippet, but I have not seen a person with reasonable political beliefs be a HUGE Trump supporter.  I'm sure they exist, maybe you'll prove to be one.

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MN you need to actually think about what you're reading here.  There are actually very few liberals (I am one).  There are conservatives (some quite so) and a lot of independent thinkers. I think you've gotten so caught up in catch phrases and debate and blindly defending the current man in the White House that you're missing the trees through the forest.

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And, I hope you stay on P&R.  We appreciate the dialogue, all of us even when (and it's often) that we disagree.  The best advice I can offer is to ask questions, ask for clarity rather than swinging back and try to understand.  Its what we all try to do and it's taught me a ton and changed my views on some things, but certainly given me more perspective on why someone votes the way they do.

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I'll just lay my political beliefs out there in a nutshell:

 

1. Taxes:  of course I want to pay less, we all do.  But I realize taxes are necessary to fund important programs, therefore I want them spent in the most efficient way possible.  I don't believe "charity" would ever be enough to cover the programs that help make America what it is.

 

2. Education:  As a public school teacher, I'm a proud supporter of public schools.  However, like everything it isn't perfect and should strive for constant improvement.  I'm also ok with people sending kids to private schools as long as it isn't on tax payer money (see #1).

 

3. Abortion:  I want to see it go away.  It is a sad and tragic thing for any person to go through.  But as a father who potentially had to face a decision about my wife's high risk pregnancy, I understand that when hard decisions need to be made to save lives of mothers and babies, the govt should have no role in those discussions.  Only doctors, parents, and clergy if wanted.  I believe programs that lower unwanted programs should be utilized around the country to lower abortions.  I have no problem with the laws that say "optional" abortions are illegal after the 1st trimester.

 

4. Immigration:  I want secure borders.  I believe investing in technology and equipment is the way to go.  Yes, walls/fencing are needed in areas of high traffic.  But there are better things to spend money on than one continuous wall.  I think it should be easier for high-skilled immigrants to gain citizenship and low skilled workers to get a seasonal work visa.  I also believe companies should be punished more than the workers when hiring undocumented immigrants.  I'm also for the DREAM act that allows people brought as children, that don't have a criminal past, and are pursuing college and careers to stay.

 

5. Healthcare:  This one is tricky.  "Who knew it would be this complicated?" ;)  But I'm not for the status quo.  There is no humane reason that people should have to choose between paying the mortgage or life saving medicine.

 

6. Environment:   I believe climate change is happening and humans are a significant part of that.  Policies surrounding energy, construction, manufacturing, and conservation should be aware of the impacts on the environment.  Now it would be awesome if every individual could be responsible and make good choices, but that isn't how the world works.  Sadly, we need regulations to reign in both laziness and greed.

 

7. Religion: I don't think anyone should be persecuted for their religious beliefs.  I feel they should be able to assemble and pray and live life without the worry of judgement.  I also strongly feel this means religions outside of Christianity also.

 

7. Government:  In general I don't see the govt as "bad".  I see bad people we elected to our govt.  I'm a strong believer in Lincoln's words: "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people...."  I, like many others, see the the government as a reflection of the American people.  When I pay taxes, I don't see it as paying a third party; I see it as chipping in to pay for my part of society.  When my government wants to exclude people because of religious beliefs or sexual orientation, I take it personal because that is "MY" government.  I want to live in a nice community, in a nice state, in a nice nation; that takes a concerted effort of people working together to raise and spend funds in a responsible way and creating an environment were people can grow and be successful if they put in the effort.

 

Overall, I'd say I'm a right leaning Democrat. Although I am a registered Republican.  My wife, however, jokes that she is going to buy me a MAGA hat when we talk politics: she's much further left than I am :thumbs

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You know folks a read from many many sources and base my opinion of what they write and report on their track record of accuracy.  How many times have many of the MSM (ie: CNN, MSMBC, NY Times, Washington Post, CBS and ABC come out hard on the liberal lean of a story, but then have to walk back their story.  The Covington kid's incident is a prime example.  Now many of those so called news agencies are face huge law suits for libel now that they were wrong.  It seems the news agencies are not creditable.  Look at Dan Rather lying about George Bush's National Guard Records.  These are just two stories but there are many many more. The MSM is so bought and paid for by big businesses, individuals ie: George Soros the Koch Brothers, the US Chamber of Commerce and anyone that believes in the New World Order.  You can laugh at me all you want, but your head is in the sand on a lot of real things that are happening.  Have you ever heard of the term Uni-Party. Read this little article for a better explanation!   http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/  Do you really think that the Democrat Party has YOUR best interest at heart? Get outside your little echo chamber here on this site and do YOUR OWN open research without regard for your past feelings on things.  That's what I did many years ago, when I was disenfranchised by Bill Clinton and having to explain to our daughter what was going on with him and the intern in the Oval Office.  These politicians (from both sides) are sick for power and have very little regard for us common people who pay the taxes.  You wonder why I like Donald Trump?  Well his is the first politician besides Ronald Reagan that really gives and dam about the people. Is he perfect, NO!  I have been looking for a person like him to vote for the last 20 years.  Someone that stands up to the lying MSM and isn't afraid to take on the Uniparty (Democrats and Rhino Republicans) head on.  They hate him simply because he has exposed who they are.  We on the right have always known that the Democrats want socialism and have led us there for generations.  Now with Donald Trump they are out of the closet only because he has force them out.  I have wanted this for years.  Transparency that never was is now here.

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I'm pretty darned conservative but I can tell you that common sense MAGA conservatives is an oxymoron. There's a reason you don't see MAGA conservatives exhibiting any common sense. I'm more of a fiscal conservative and it doesn't seem like there has been one politician, repub or Dem, that falls in the category for quite some time. I've transformed from conservative Republican to can't stand our political system.

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@Ulty & @funhusker  said it very well.  Everyone on here knows I'm a Reagan conservative.  And let me borrow a famous line - I knew Ronald Reagan (my undergrad was in Amer History, specializing in Presidential history - so when I say I knew Reagan - I've probably have read and study more about Reagan than anyone on this board, and I was 25 years old when he took office - so I saw his profound positive affect on the country - compare 1960-1979 to 1989 and after), I served with Reagan (election worker), and Trump is no Reagan.   The OP mentions the need for MAGA Conservatives to come forward.  I say they do not exist.  Someone who holds true MAGA political positions cannot hold true conservative positions - they cannot co-exist - if you really understand what being a conservative is  - It is grounded in the individual rights, liberty,  and personal honor  of each man, woman and child regardless of race, religion or any other 'identifier'  --Let the liberals use 'identity politics' - but there is NO room for it in conservative policy.  The true conservative values the immigrant who comes to make this country greater and doesn't coward in fear because that immigrant is different.  The conservative doesn't speak badly of fellow citizens from the WH.  Being a loud mouth, name calling president is no substitute for being a person of substance and understanding policy and conservative principles.  So when the OP  says "common sense MAGA conservatives"  - the premise is wrong from the very beginning.    As I mentioned to you in another post - read my Cult of Trump thread and how the Trump movement is really a cult of personality movement - it isn't conservative because at his core - Trump is not a conservative and I cringe when those 2 are tied together.   He may have co-opted the GOP and adopted conservative language to get elected but at his core Trump is nothing more than a Narcissist - using whatever he can to promote himself and that also means using every derogatory comment (like those aimed at John McCain) in a false believe that by doing so will make his star shine brighter.   

As someone said "Blowing out another person's candle doesn't make yours burn any brighter." 

 

As I mentioned directly to the MN before - I once was in his shoes.  I ate talk radio and hard right news 24/7 - and I became a tense, stressed out and angry person.  And I was wrong.  The labels we give each other to differentiate ourselves only divide.  For the most part  liberals and conservatives all want the same thing - a great country, a just country, a country that honors the rights of all individuals, and a country that helps the needy and enables the diligent to succeed.  We  just have different ways of getting there.  Instead of shouting at each other wt our differences we could be listening to each other and coming up with broad base solutions that help everyone. 

 

Are there broad based MAGA conservatives on HB - no they don't exist.  Are there conservatives on HB - yes many.  Many of us are in the mode of Reagan and not of the imposture Trump.

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10 minutes ago, MNBigRedNorth said:

You know folks a read from many many sources and base my opinion of what they write and report on their track record of accuracy.  How many times have many of the MSM (ie: CNN, MSMBC, NY Times, Washington Post, CBS and ABC come out hard on the liberal lean of a story, but then have to walk back their story.  The Covington kid's incident is a prime example.  Now many of those so called news agencies are face huge law suits for libel now that they were wrong.  It seems the news agencies are not creditable.  Look at Dan Rather lying about George Bush's National Guard Records.  These are just two stories but there are many many more. The MSM is so bought and paid for by big businesses, individuals ie: George Soros the Koch Brothers, the US Chamber of Commerce and anyone that believes in the New World Order.  You can laugh at me all you want, but your head is in the sand on a lot of real things that are happening.  Have you ever heard of the term Uni-Party. Read this little article for a better explanation!   http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/  Do you really think that the Democrat Party has YOUR best interest at heart? Get outside your little echo chamber here on this site and do YOUR OWN open research without regard for your past feelings on things.  That's what I did many years ago, when I was disenfranchised by Bill Clinton and having to explain to our daughter what was going on with him and the intern in the Oval Office.  These politicians (from both sides) are sick for power and have very little regard for us common people who pay the taxes.  You wonder why I like Donald Trump?  Well his is the first politician besides Ronald Reagan that really gives and dam about the people. Is he perfect, NO!  I have been looking for a person like him to vote for the last 20 years.  Someone that stands up to the lying MSM and isn't afraid to take on the Uniparty (Democrats and Rhino Republicans) head on.  They hate him simply because he has exposed who they are.  We on the right have always known that the Democrats want socialism and have led us there for generations.  Now with Donald Trump they are out of the closet only because he has force them out.  I have wanted this for years.  Transparency that never was is now here.

:dunno:lol:  I'm curious, If that was the deal breaker twenty years ago, how on Earth are you not disenfranchised by Trump over the last 30 years?

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12 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm pretty darned conservative but I can tell you that common sense MAGA conservatives is an oxymoron. There's a reason you don't see MAGA conservatives exhibiting any common sense. I'm more of a fiscal conservative and it doesn't seem like there has been one politician, repub or Dem, that falls in the category for quite some time. I've transformed from conservative Republican to can't stand our political system.

I agree - as I noted also  MAGA conservatives can't exist.  Either MAGA or a true conservative. 

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5 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

@Ulty & @funhusker  said it very well.  Everyone on here knows I'm a Reagan conservative.  And let me borrow a famous line - I knew Ronald Reagan (my undergrad was in Amer History, specializing in Presidential history - so when I say I knew Reagan - I've probably have read and study more about Reagan than anyone on this board, and I was 25 years old when he took office - so I saw his profound positive affect on the country - compare 1960-1979 to 1989 and after), I served with Reagan (election worker), and Trump is no Reagan.   The OP mentions the need for MAGA Conservatives to come forward.  I say they do not exist.  Someone who holds true MAGA political positions cannot hold true conservative positions - they cannot co-exist - if you really understand what being a conservative is  - It is grounded in the individual rights, liberty,  and personal honor  of each man, woman and child regardless of race, religion or any other 'identifier'.  The true conservative values the immigrant who comes to make this country greater and doesn't coward in fear because that immigrant is different.  The conservative doesn't speak badly of fellow citizens from the WH.  Being a loud mouth, name calling president is no substitute for being a person of substance and understanding policy and conservative principles.  So when the OP  says "sense MAGA conservatives"  - the premise is wrong from the very beginning.    As I mentioned to you in another post - read my Cult of Trump thread and how the Trump movement is really a cult of personality movement - it isn't conservative because at his core - Trump is not a conservative and I cringe when those 2 are tied together.   He may have co-opted the GOP and adopted conservative language to get elected but at his core Trump is nothing more than a Narcissist - using whatever he can to promote himself and that also means using every derogatory comment (like those aimed at John McCain) in a false believe that by doing so will make his star shine brighter.   As someone said

As someone said "Blowing out another person's candle doesn't make yours burn any brighter." 

 

As I mentioned directly to the MN before - I once was in his shoes.  I ate talk radio and hard right news 24/7 - and I became a tense, stressed out and angry person.  And I was wrong.  The labels we give each other to differentiate ourselves only divide.  For the most part  liberals and conservatives all want the same thing - a great country, a just country, a country that honors the rights of all individuals, and a country that helps the needy and enables the diligent to succeed.  We  just have different ways of getting there.  Instead of shouting at each other wt our differences we could be listening to each other and coming up with broad base solutions that help everyone. 

 

Are there broad based MAGA conservatives on HB - no they don't exist.  Are there conservatives on HB - yes many.  Many of us are in the model of Reagan and not of the imposture Trump.

image.jpeg.864ed311c15fd9f50952b0d231ac1714.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, MNBigRedNorth said:

You know folks a read from many many sources and base my opinion of what they write and report on their track record of accuracy.  How many times have many of the MSM (ie: CNN, MSMBC, NY Times, Washington Post, CBS and ABC come out hard on the liberal lean of a story, but then have to walk back their story.  The Covington kid's incident is a prime example.  Now many of those so called news agencies are face huge law suits for libel now that they were wrong.  It seems the news agencies are not creditable.  Look at Dan Rather lying about George Bush's National Guard Records.  These are just two stories but there are many many more. The MSM is so bought and paid for by big businesses, individuals ie: George Soros the Koch Brothers, the US Chamber of Commerce and anyone that believes in the New World Order.  You can laugh at me all you want, but your head is in the sand on a lot of real things that are happening.  Have you ever heard of the term Uni-Party. Read this little article for a better explanation!   http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/  Do you really think that the Democrat Party has YOUR best interest at heart? Get outside your little echo chamber here on this site and do YOUR OWN open research without regard for your past feelings on things.  That's what I did many years ago, when I was disenfranchised by Bill Clinton and having to explain to our daughter what was going on with him and the intern in the Oval Office.  These politicians (from both sides) are sick for power and have very little regard for us common people who pay the taxes.  You wonder why I like Donald Trump?  Well his is the first politician besides Ronald Reagan that really gives and dam about the people. Is he perfect, NO!  I have been looking for a person like him to vote for the last 20 years.  Someone that stands up to the lying MSM and isn't afraid to take on the Uniparty (Democrats and Rhino Republicans) head on.  They hate him simply because he has exposed who they are.  We on the right have always known that the Democrats want socialism and have led us there for generations.  Now with Donald Trump they are out of the closet only because he has force them out.  I have wanted this for years.  Transparency that never was is now here.

 

Donald Trump cares about you and me? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahabahaha.

 

How so? When he tried to kick 16 million people off healthcare insurance? When hea trying to cut medicare by $845 billion? Medicaid by $1.5 trillion? Screwing over college students by increasing their already record high debt? Giving a $2 trillion dollar tax break to the ultra wealthy and corporations? Screwing over farmers with his trade wars and tariffs? Alienating every ally we have in this world and cozying up with dictators? The newest one being Brazil. What one of these policies shows that DJT gives a damn about anyone but himself or his interests?

 

Nevermind dont answer. I already know the answer will be “the wall” or something related. 

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30 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I'll just lay my political beliefs out there in a nutshell:

 

1. Taxes:  of course I want to pay less, we all do.  But I realize taxes are necessary to fund important programs, therefore I want them spent in the most efficient way possible.  I don't believe "charity" would ever be enough to cover the programs that help make America what it is.

 

2. Education:  As a public school teacher, I'm a proud supporter of public schools.  However, like everything it isn't perfect and should strive for constant improvement.  I'm also ok with people sending kids to private schools as long as it isn't on tax payer money (see #1).

 

3. Abortion:  I want to see it go away.  It is a sad and tragic thing for any person to go through.  But as a father who potentially had to face a decision about my wife's high risk pregnancy, I understand that when hard decisions need to be made to save lives of mothers and babies, the govt should have no role in those discussions.  Only doctors, parents, and clergy if wanted.  I believe programs that lower unwanted programs should be utilized around the country to lower abortions.  I have no problem with the laws that say "optional" abortions are illegal after the 1st trimester.

 

4. Immigration:  I want secure borders.  I believe investing in technology and equipment is the way to go.  Yes, walls/fencing are needed in areas of high traffic.  But there are better things to spend money on than one continuous wall.  I think it should be easier for high-skilled immigrants to gain citizenship and low skilled workers to get a seasonal work visa.  I also believe companies should be punished more than the workers when hiring undocumented immigrants.  I'm also for the DREAM act that allows people brought as children, that don't have a criminal past, and are pursuing college and careers to stay.

 

5. Healthcare:  This one is tricky.  "Who knew it would be this complicated?" ;)  But I'm not for the status quo.  There is no humane reason that people should have to choose between paying the mortgage or life saving medicine.

 

6. Environment:   I believe climate change is happening and humans are a significant part of that.  Policies surrounding energy, construction, manufacturing, and conservation should be aware of the impacts on the environment.  Now it would be awesome if every individual could be responsible and make good choices, but that isn't how the world works.  Sadly, we need regulations to reign in both laziness and greed.

 

7. Religion: I don't think anyone should be persecuted for their religious beliefs.  I feel they should be able to assemble and pray and live life without the worry of judgement.  I also strongly feel this means religions outside of Christianity also.

 

7. Government:  In general I don't see the govt as "bad".  I see bad people we elected to our govt.  I'm a strong believer in Lincoln's words: "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people...."  I, like many others, see the the government as a reflection of the American people.  When I pay taxes, I don't see it as paying a third party; I see it as chipping in to pay for my part of society.  When my government wants to exclude people because of religious beliefs or sexual orientation, I take it personal because that is "MY" government.  I want to live in a nice community, in a nice state, in a nice nation; that takes a concerted effort of people working together to raise and spend funds in a responsible way and creating an environment were people can grow and be successful if they put in the effort.

 

Overall, I'd say I'm a right leaning Democrat. Although I am a registered Republican.  My wife, however, jokes that she is going to buy me a MAGA hat when we talk politics: she's much further left than I am :thumbs

Excellent write-up.  You are not far off of my beliefs believe or not.  On government in general your spot on, but there are un-elected people in government that work each and every day to do nothing but support the existence of their position.  I know social workers in our county that will send a bus ticket (bought on their own dime) to an out of state resident to relocate said person so they have another welfare client to counsel.  People like this are out their, but in general by far most government workers are great.  I say your more conservative than you give yourself credit for.:thumbs

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