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Bill Barr Assembles Team to Investigate Counterintel Probe Into Trump Campaign


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19 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

It means innocent until proven guilty, a presumption extended to Obama era dbags..

But not exonerated of crimes under investigation for yet correct? An investigation is not an assumtion of guilt. 

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19 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

It means innocent until proven guilty, a presumption extended to Obama era dbags..

 

Just want to make sure I have this right.

 

"Does not exonerate" = "Complete and total exoneration" = "Innocent until proven guilty" but only Obama era "dbags" are innocent until proven guilty.

 

But what about the Trump appointed FBI director asserting that there is no evidence to support the "Obama era dbags" are guilty of anything?

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Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

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1 hour ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

This post is too sensible.  

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2 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

 

Good post, but just a caveat to the bolded: the manner in which people get busted does matter. Ends don't always justify the means. Accused have rights, we have due process, we have 4th amendment protections, "fruit of the poisonous tree" arguments, and so forth. That is all constitutional stuff and foundational to our entire justice system. That is why Mueller worked so hard to do things by the book, and why the backlash from Trump and his ilk throughout the whole ordeal was so disgusting, because they are the ones who disregard the Constitution and insert chaos into the justice system.

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2 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

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54 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

Ummmmmm your example is kinda what happens a lot .....

 

I know, I exaggerate, but it does indeed happen exactly like you describe a lot more depending on the neighborhood make up and race (and income level)

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2 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Ummmmmm your example is kinda what happens a lot .....

 

I know, I exaggerate, but it does indeed happen exactly like you describe a lot more depending on the neighborhood make up and race (and income level)

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

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14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

 

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

 

15 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

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33 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

 

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

 

Fine, then you shouldn't have a problem with the Trump investigation.

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3 hours ago, Ulty said:

 

Good post, but just a caveat to the bolded: the manner in which people get busted does matter. Ends don't always justify the means. Accused have rights, we have due process, we have 4th amendment protections, "fruit of the poisonous tree" arguments, and so forth. That is all constitutional stuff and foundational to our entire justice system. That is why Mueller worked so hard to do things by the book, and why the backlash from Trump and his ilk throughout the whole ordeal was so disgusting, because they are the ones who disregard the Constitution and insert chaos into the justice system.

 

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

 

I realize I'm walking a fine line here. I generally have a pretty black-and-white view when in comes to most issues. But sometimes, like in this case, things get a little fuzzy for me. Sometimes I really think the end does justify the means, especially like my Adam Lanza example. Ask me the same question tomorrow, and I might have a completely different answer. 

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6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

 

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

Wait a minute. Comey turned people against the FBI?

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