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Sorry this is a little late, but it still irks me..

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it," Ocasio-Cortez, 29, said, insisting the VA provides "some of the highest quality" healthcare for veterans. She said people who advocate for a privatized VA are only trying to fix it in favor of pharmaceutical companies.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ocasio-cortez-defends-va-healthcare-to-veterans-if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it

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She's wrong and she's right:

 

1 - she's wrong, the VA is broken. In some areas the care is good and reasonably quick, but as a whole it's a failing system and we owe our veterans far better than this mess. It's been known to be a troubled agency for more than 50 years. No president/congress has fixed it, and with this attitude, it won't get fixed soon.

 

2 - she's right in that the solution is not to privatize it. Healthcare should not be a for-profit venture, and the care we provide our veterans will get far worse if they're some company's money-maker. 

 

 

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You know, you could have made this a thread about fixing the VA considering Cortez isn't the only one to get upset at concerning this issue. What have other members of Congress done? 

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1 hour ago, knapplc said:

She's wrong and she's right:

 

1 - she's wrong, the VA is broken. In some areas the care is good and reasonably quick, but as a whole it's a failing system and we owe our veterans far better than this mess. It's been known to be a troubled agency for more than 50 years. No president/congress has fixed it, and with this attitude, it won't get fixed soon.

 

2 - she's right in that the solution is not to privatize it. Healthcare should not be a for-profit venture, and the care we provide our veterans will get far worse if they're some company's money-maker. 

A VA reform bill got passed last year with bipartisan support.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/389072-senate-sends-major-va-reform-bill-to-trumps-desk

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34 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

A VA reform bill got passed last year with bipartisan support.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/389072-senate-sends-major-va-reform-bill-to-trumps-desk

 

They passed one in 2018.

 

They passed one in 2017.

 

They passed one in 2016.

 

They pass legislation to "fix" the VA all the time. But nothing actually happens. And we've had that problem for several decades.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

They passed one in 2018.

 

They passed one in 2017.

 

They passed one in 2016.

 

They pass legislation to "fix" the VA all the time. But nothing actually happens. And we've had that problem for several decades.

Which problems aren't getting fixed?

 

I know quite a few veterans that use the VA (I do not use the VA myself), and they've all said it's gotten much better the last few years. That's obviously just anecdotal, so I'm curious what you think are the issues and what needs to get done about them. I haven't been closely following the changes at the VA.

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19 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Which problems aren't getting fixed?

 

I know quite a few veterans that use the VA (I do not use the VA myself), and they've all said it's gotten much better the last few years. That's obviously just anecdotal, so I'm curious what you think are the issues and what needs to get done about them. I haven't been closely following the changes at the VA.

 

Local VA healthcare providers are hit and miss. Some regions, like Omaha/Lincoln, have pretty good healthcare.

 

Others don't.

 

And there have been scandals.

 

And veterans have been put at risk.

 

And the antiquated data management system is still being fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I personally don't use the VA as they schedule 3-6 months out in my neck of the woods and my private insurance gets me in normally in less than a week and 10 times better doctors who actually listen to their patients.  I will admit, i'm a bit bias as when my dad, a Vietnam era Force Recon Marine was basically thrown on the back burner for care and eventually was allowed to see his specialist, only problem, he passed a month before he was allowed to see said specialist due to his condition.  He went 4 months without any care from the VA because we couldn't get him scheduled.  I have ongoing knee issues thanks to my time in the USMC, every time I need the knee drained it was taking 4-6 months to get an appointment to have them check the knee, then another 3-4 months to actually have it drained.  I haven't been to the VA in the last 3 years when my private insurance covers it within a 2 week period, from initial doctor to confirm it needs a specialist to the draining(or another scoping last time).  We built a large shiny new VA hospital in Vegas, brought in lots of doctors, everything is just as bad as it was.

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4 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

They passed one in 2018.

 

They passed one in 2017.

 

They passed one in 2016.

 

They pass legislation to "fix" the VA all the time. But nothing actually happens. And we've had that problem for several decades.

 

 

 

 

What happens is that the money earmarked for these 'fixes' gets used elsewhere in some other pet projects (like the most recent tax cuts), and these bills mostly become unfunded mandates that are eventually ignored. 

 

The VA needs to get funding so they can fix what is broken, hire more doctors and staff to reduce waiting time, and get rid of a lot of the ridiculous bureaucracy that causes problems in the first place. For example, one of my veteran friends had to see someone in the VA four times over before he could officially get the percentage of disability everyone knew he had from the onset (which impacted his retirement pay). That's two or three visits too many, and it wastes time and resources and creates the scheduling nightmares that take place. 

 

Hell, why not make some sort of medical service corps that serves VA hospitals and rural communities struggling to bring in or keep trained doctors and nurses--this way, you have a cadre of regional doctors making trips to rural areas to assist in treatment, but if they're needed to shore up the VA and help keep appointments flowing, they get brought back in for a spell. Allow recent medial graduates the opportunity to serve in this capacity for four years at adequate pay, and their school debt is forgiven by the government. 

 

That, or if you're a former military medic, doctor, or nurse, you can continue service stateside in the VA and in rural areas to contribute towards years of service. (something like this may already be in play at the VA, not sure). 

 

5 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

You know, you could have made this a thread about fixing the VA considering Cortez isn't the only one to get upset at concerning this issue. What have other members of Congress done? 

 

Because character assassination pays dividends in future discussions of projects or ideas the assassinated character brings up, like the New Green Deal. It's easier to paint her as a 'crazy broad' than it is to break down her plans and intelligently discuss their benefits or flaws.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Local VA healthcare providers are hit and miss. Some regions, like Omaha/Lincoln, have pretty good healthcare.

 

Others don't.

 

And there have been scandals.

 

And veterans have been put at risk.

 

And the antiquated data management system is still being fixed.

Thanks for the links, but I'm not sure they support the conclusion that the VA isn't being fixed. The last link is the only one that supports your stance, but even that one is about a program that's being implemented, so no one knows if it'll succeed or fail yet.

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On 5/21/2019 at 8:03 AM, Nebfanatic said:

You know, you could have made this a thread about fixing the VA considering Cortez isn't the only one to get upset at concerning this issue. What have other members of Congress done? 

I see no problem with him pointing out AOC's comments.  We all do it all the time with other government officials on other issues.  Why have kid gloves with her?

 

As for the VA, it's both good and bad.  I honestly don't see why 90% of the care given isn't handled in a medicare type system where veterans can go to any provider and get care with the government paying for it.  That seems like a good combination.  I know people who have to travel farther to get care at a facility that isn't as good as the ones they are passing along the way.

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4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I see no problem with him pointing out AOC's comments.  We all do it all the time with other government officials on other issues.  Why have kid gloves with her?

 

As for the VA, it's both good and bad.  I honestly don't see why 90% of the care given isn't handled in a medicare type system where veterans can go to any provider and get care with the government paying for it.  That seems like a good combination.  I know people who have to travel farther to get care at a facility that isn't as good as the ones they are passing along the way.

Its fine to bring up AOCs comments, I just don't see the need for the thread title to be her name if we want the conversation to be about the VA. 

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4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I see no problem with him pointing out AOC's comments.  We all do it all the time with other government officials on other issues.  Why have kid gloves with her?

 

As for the VA, it's both good and bad.  I honestly don't see why 90% of the care given isn't handled in a medicare type system where veterans can go to any provider and get care with the government paying for it.  That seems like a good combination.  I know people who have to travel farther to get care at a facility that isn't as good as the ones they are passing along the way.

Medicare-for-All would allow everyone including our veterans to have healthcare almost anywhere. It would also allow the VA to focus on the specific needs of veterans that aren't as common in the general population (like PTSD).

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22 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Its fine to bring up AOCs comments, I just don't see the need for the thread title to be her name if we want the conversation to be about the VA. 

I see no problem with the title when the quote in the OP is from her.

 

22 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Medicare-for-All would allow everyone including our veterans to have healthcare almost anywhere. It would also allow the VA to focus on the specific needs of veterans that aren't as common in the general population (like PTSD).

I've said that I'm more than willing to look honestly at Medicare for all.  

 

And, yes, I fully agree that we need a certain level of VA for specific veteran specific issues like PTSD.  But, a veteran shouldn't have to drive past a very good hospital that has specialists in diabetes to drive two more hours to the VA.

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11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I see no problem with the title when the quote in the OP is from her.

 

 

Except it doesn't hit on the main theme of the topic at all. Why not 'AOCs thoughts of the VA' or anything referring to the VA? Do we have a thread titled 'Donald Trump'? In my opinion the title is just trying to take a shot instead of direct our attention to the actual issue. Looking at the other thread started by this poster it becomes clear their motive isn't to start legitimate discussion about complex topics like the VA.

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I think people do whatever the opposite of kids gloves is when it comes to AOC. She’s criticized a lot more than is deserved for a lot less than other politicians. Some of it’s deserved, and maybe this is, but it just gets old.

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5 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

I think people do whatever the opposite of kids gloves is when it comes to AOC. She’s criticized a lot more than is deserved for a lot less than other politicians. Some of it’s deserved, and maybe this is, but it just gets old.

 

She has been called out by conservatives/upset constituents multiple times at her town halls (which she has way more of than other politicians) and actually says she enjoys the dialogue with people who disagree with her.  Which is another trait of hers that I think will help her down the road in politics.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Except it doesn't hit on the main theme of the topic at all. Why not 'AOCs thoughts of the VA' or anything referring to the VA? Do we have a thread titled 'Donald Trump'? In my opinion the title is just trying to take a shot instead of direct our attention to the actual issue. Looking at the other thread started by this poster it becomes clear their motive isn't to start legitimate discussion about complex topics like the VA.

 

I view that as a pretty nit picky complaint.  

 

Politicians from all over the spectrum are called out from the other side on issues if they are the ones that are vocal about the issue.  She happens to be very vocal and so she's called out from the other side.

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6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I view that as a pretty nit picky complaint.  

 

Politicians from all over the spectrum are called out from the other side on issues if they are the ones that are vocal about the issue.  She happens to be very vocal and so she's called out from the other side.

Im just saying in my opinion it takes away from the discussion and has the potential to devolve into a catch all on AOC. Its fine and maybe it is a bit nit picky but I don't see any other topic titles like this. I also find the tag funny considering AOC is a congresswoman. This kind of is her lane but I digress. Carry on

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When the tag on the thread is "stay in your lane," it's pretty clear the OP intended this thread to be about AOC. I think most of us trying to have a legit conversation on the merits & troubles of the VA are off-topic. :D

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11 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Im just saying in my opinion it takes away from the discussion and has the potential to devolve into a catch all on AOC. Its fine and maybe it is a bit nit picky but I don't see any other topic titles like this. I also find the tag funny considering AOC is a congresswoman. This kind of is her lane but I digress. Carry on

 

I just find it interesting that for some reason, people seem to think they need to come to the rescue of AOC.  She's a new politician that is very vocal about many things and some of her views can come across as naive.  When that happens, the other side is going to jump on her about that.  That's just life.  I don't see the same level of coming to the rescue with other politicians.  

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12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I just find it interesting that for some reason, people seem to think they need to come to the rescue of AOC.  She's a new politician that is very vocal about many things and some of her views can come across as naive.  When that happens, the other side is going to jump on her about that.  That's just life.  I don't see the same level of coming to the rescue with other politicians.  

I don't need to rescue aoc. I don't care. But this isn't about aoc in particular. The thread title could be 'Mike Pence' with a tag stayinyourlane and a quote from him about gay marriage in the OP and I would likely bring up the same issue. Again, there is no other thread in this forum with someones name soley as the title so its not like this is happening with any other politicians. If it was I would likely voice the same concerns. It may be petty but I just don't see it as constructive to discussion.

 

That is unless we want this thread to be a cortez catch all and not a VA discussion. In that case the thread title is fine, I'm just surprised OP stopped with 1 quote. 

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13 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I don't need to rescue aoc. I don't care. But this isn't about aoc in particular. The thread title could be 'Mike Pence' with a tag stayinyourlane and a quote from him about gay marriage in the OP and I would likely bring up the same issue. Again, there is no other thread in this forum with someones name soley as the title so its not like this is happening with any other politicians. If it was I would likely voice the same concerns. It may be petty but I just don't see it as constructive to discussion.

 

That is unless we want this thread to be a cortez catch all and not a VA discussion. In that case the thread title is fine, I'm just surprised OP stopped with 1 quote. 

And, I wouldn't have a problem with that title either.

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1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

And, I wouldn't have a problem with that title either.

I guess my point is what are we trying to discuss here? If its the VA then this is a bad thread title. If its AOC, carry on. 

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The GOP and conservative press are very good about messaging because they keep it very simple. If the conversation is about gun control, the buzzword is "Chicago," home of Barack Obama and black-on-black violence. If it's any perceived threat on Capitalism, it's this big mouth girl bartender and socialist who wants to ban airplanes and beef. Prior to AOC, you just shouted "Venezuela!" a lot.

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I see no problem with him pointing out AOC's comments.  We all do it all the time with other government officials on other issues.  Why have kid gloves with her?

 

It represents an inconsistency in outrage. AOC is an easy target because walks is somewhat right. It's fine if the VA is the actual thing he's focused on, but it seems more that a leftie politician talking about the VA is more interesting.

 

 

36 minutes ago, knapplc said:

When the tag on the thread is "stay in your lane," it's pretty clear the OP intended this thread to be about AOC. I think most of us trying to have a legit conversation on the merits & troubles of the VA are off-topic. :D

 

Agreed.

 

 

26 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I just find it interesting that for some reason, people seem to think they need to come to the rescue of AOC.  

 

Personally I feel no need to come to her rescue, but I am interested in pointing out the inconsistent standards of people who like to go after her.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

I think people do whatever the opposite of kids gloves is when it comes to AOC. She’s criticized a lot more than is deserved for a lot less than other politicians. Some of it’s deserved, and maybe this is, but it just gets old.

I think that will only help her and make her more popular.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I've said that I'm more than willing to look honestly at Medicare for all.  

 

And, yes, I fully agree that we need a certain level of VA for specific veteran specific issues like PTSD.  But, a veteran shouldn't have to drive past a very good hospital that has specialists in diabetes to drive two more hours to the VA.

I agree with you. I was adding that M4A would complement the VA and help with a lot of the issues with things like distance and where care is available.

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On 5/23/2019 at 9:42 AM, knapplc said:

When the tag on the thread is "stay in your lane," it's pretty clear the OP intended this thread to be about AOC. I think most of us trying to have a legit conversation on the merits & troubles of the VA are off-topic. :D

 

To clarify, I don't need someone, who's never served, to tell me what doesn't need to be fixed when vets are committing suicide on VA grounds.

 

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6 hours ago, walksalone said:

To clarify, I don't need someone, who's never served, to tell me what doesn't need to be fixed when vets are committing suicide on VA grounds.

 

 

Why did you single AOC out instead of titling this “Donald Trump and AOC” ? Neither of them served.

 

 

Quote

"Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is correct, the VA is not broken, it is doing great. But that is only because of the Trump Administration.”

—Donald Trump

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12 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Why did you single AOC out instead of titling this “Donald Trump and AOC” ? Neither of them served.

 

 

Because this thread isn't really about the VA....

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6 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Why did you single AOC out instead of titling this “Donald Trump and AOC” ? Neither of them served.

 

 

On has an inny and one has an outy.  That appendage means everything to some people.

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13 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Why did you single AOC out instead of titling this “Donald Trump and AOC” ? Neither of them served.

 

 

 

Sorry, but the story in question involved her.  I don't want either of them to take care of our vets

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8 hours ago, walksalone said:

 

Sorry, but the story in question involved her.  I don't want either of them to take care of our vets

Wanting only vets to take care of vets is silly. Vets make up a tiny fraction of the population, so while vets should have an important voice in decisions about the VA, they certainly shouldn't be the only ones.

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4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Wanting only vets to take care of vets is silly. Vets make up a tiny fraction of the population, so while vets should have an important voice in decisions about the VA, they certainly shouldn't be the only ones.

 

 

It's the "you've never played football so you can't comment on football" argument.

 

If the VA gets better I guarantee it's going to involve some people who never served in the military. Also, we don't know whether AOC has talked to members of the military. If she hasn't, then she shouldn't have stated her opinion yet because she doesn't have all the information she needs. I've talked to people who have used the VA and I think her statement is wrong. I just don't get why the topic wasn't about the VA, including AOC's comments on it, instead of on an 8 paragraph article on AOC. There are plenty of people who've said and done dumb things about the VA.

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11 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It's the "you've never played football so you can't comment on football" argument.

 

If the VA gets better I guarantee it's going to involve some people who never served in the military. Also, we don't know whether AOC has talked to members of the military. If she hasn't, then she shouldn't have stated her opinion yet because she doesn't have all the information she needs. I've talked to people who have used the VA and I think her statement is wrong. I just don't get why the topic wasn't about the VA, including AOC's comments on it, instead of on an 8 paragraph article on AOC. There are plenty of people who've said and done dumb things about the VA.

 

I've worked at the VA, and I'd rather it be vets taking care of vets.  As far as the football analogy, it's nice, but doesn't fit the situation.  

 

The civilians that worked at the VA were the reason I left the job...

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would you rather have a veteran veterinarian or a non-veteran spinal surgeon fix your broken neck?

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7 hours ago, walksalone said:

 

I've worked at the VA, and I'd rather it be vets taking care of vets.  As far as the football analogy, it's nice, but doesn't fit the situation.  

 

The civilians that worked at the VA were the reason I left the job...

Are you a physician Walks?  

 

I'm confused, are you saying that only doctors that have served should be working at the VA?  Can you help me understand why?  

 

I'd have to pull more data, but I work in several VA's and the number of professionals that served previously is minimal, and I don't think there would be enough to populate any VA if that was the criteria.  There is already a huge deficiency with people that want to work in the VA's, staffing would be even poorer if that criteria was put into place.

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7 hours ago, walksalone said:

giphy.gif

 

 

What he’s getting at is there aren’t enough veterans with expertise in the right areas to man all of the VAs in the U.S.

 

Additionally, shouldn’t you want the best person at the job regardless of whether they’re a vet? Requiring the doctors and nurses to be vets really narrows down the pool. You’re just not going to get enough surgeons (and definitely not the best ones) if you’re only pulling from 1% of the population.

 

And the football comment does apply when you’re talking about people trying to fix the VA. We weren’t talking about employees at the VA before. We were talking about policy/funding.

 

 

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7 hours ago, walksalone said:

giphy.gif

Fact of the matter is it is our elected officials jobs to set up the rules, regulations, guidelines, funding, ect. regarding the VA. A congressperson is entirely in their lane making comments on the VA because that is within the scope of their job. Not to say that AOC is right, but she as well as Trump have an obligation to address the VA. If you think she and Trump are wrong, call your representative and make it known this is a concern. Vote for people who will make this a priority. Help get people who are going to make a difference elected, because if not, nothing will change. These people you say shouldn't be taking care of vets are the ones making all of the decisions, but the good part is, we the people elect these people to these positions. 

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Maybe the better analogy is football. The NFL celebrates its veterans and uses their legacy to promote the game. But when it becomes clear that the game itself has taken a physical and mental toll beyond most professions, the NFL distances itself from its veterans and does little to address their real life issues. That level of care is going to be expensive, and it comes with the admission that the sacrifice may not have been worth the toll — especially when faced with people who didn't make the sacrifice and wish you and your problems would go away quietly because they're bad for business. 

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https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-garden/

 

Been seeing 'cauliflower is racist' all over the conservative propaganda machine today and it just irks me. Their president is always jawing about fake news, well this is that. Firstly, AOC never used the term racist, and secondly, the conservative media is serving a gross misrepresentation of what she said. AOC was talking about community gardens in communities of color and how it makes more sense to grow culturally familiar vegetables in those gardens. In no way is she saying cauliflower is racist, in fact she was just using it as an example. But now conservatives are running with this clip and saying the left thinks cauliflower is racist...its infuriating.

 

Edit: I don't agree(or disagree necessarily) with her stance but the gross misrepresentation of it is terrible.

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10 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-garden/

 

Been seeing 'cauliflower is racist' all over the conservative propaganda machine today and it just irks me. Their president is always jawing about fake news, well this is that. Firstly, AOC never used the term racist, and secondly, the conservative media is serving a gross misrepresentation of what she said. AOC was talking about community gardens in communities of color and how it makes more sense to grow culturally familiar vegetables in those gardens. In no way is she saying cauliflower is racist, in fact she was just using it as an example. But now conservatives are running with this clip and saying the left thinks cauliflower is racist...its infuriating.

 

 

None of that was news. None of it. She can be annoying, but that's it. And It's hysterical that people are calling her elitist.

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2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

None of that was news. None of it. She can be annoying, but that's it. And It's hysterical that people are calling her elitist.

Yet Fox is all over it. The Tucker Carlson clip that introduced me to this had me cringing.

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Speaking of the flyover country that she ignores 'cause she's an "elitist," in the context of growing produce, most fruits and vegetables are grown in California, Washington, Arizona, and Florida. As far as food production goes, California is #1 followed by Iowa and Nebraska.

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So is she an elitist or just a stupid bartender? The right can never come to an agreement on their smears. Its like when one person calls Bernie a socialist. Then another calls him a communist. Then another calls him a marxist. Get on the same page with your smears. 

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