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Mavric

Which 'What If' Would Have Caused the Biggest Change?

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Its got to be #4. If we win the Big 12 title we likely win another National Championship. If that occurs, then #3 doesn't happen when it did and the course of history for the 2000s is changed. 

 

EDIT - Thank JJHusker - I apparently can't read! Please ignore!

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Of those 5 choices, #3 Pederson doesn't fire Solich definitely has the biggest affect. Everything else is only dealing with one player or one game whereas that one caused huge program upheaval.

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Just now, bugeater17 said:

Its got to be #4. If we win the Big 12 title we likely win another National Championship. If that occurs, then #3 doesn't happen when it did and the course of history for the 2000s is changed. 

 

??? Frank was fired many years before 2009. ???

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2 and 5

 

CC would have dominated in CFB

TM not hurt...was unstoppable.  He will eventually get the praise he has rightfully earned because the dork crowd that loved to make fun of his arm motion (even though he completed like 64% of his passes) and the super dorks that made fun of his interviews (from the basement of their grandmas house) will find someone new to pick on. 

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Well, if #2 happens, #3 probably doesn't happen, at least for a few years. And, I would guess that our conference title streak isn't at 20 years, either. 

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another one to add is if Taylor Martinez was born a year earlier or possibly if Pelini had burned his redshirt.

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#4 by a landslide

 

If we won the title in 2009, Nebraska never leaves the Big 12.  Nebraska never leaving the Big 12 means Bo's defense still looks solid against pass happy spread teams in 2010 and on.  Bo Pelini could still be our coach in 2019, maybe even with a conference title win or two more.

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2 minutes ago, Redux said:

#4 by a landslide

 

If we won the title in 2009, Nebraska never leaves the Big 12.  Nebraska never leaving the Big 12 means Bo's defense still looks solid against pass happy spread teams in 2010 and on.  Bo Pelini could still be our coach in 2019, maybe even with a conference title win or two more.

 

I think we still leave the Big 12 even if we win in 2009.  The writing was on the wall with how Texas and OU were scheming behind the scenes.  That would not have been any different had we won.

 

For me, it's clearly the firing of Frank.  If that doesn't happen, we don't hire Callahan.  If we don't hire Callahan, the crappy, lazy, pro mentality isn't instilled into the program that has taken a very long time to get out.

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gotta be #4

 

we miss out on Callahan, which was the largest culture shift I have ever seen with regards to the Huskers...literally everything after has been trying to get back to stasis

 

edit: mis read the list...obviously (from my reply above) I meant not fire Frank

Edited by DevoHusker
shown to be a mistake
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2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

gotta be #4

 

we miss out on Callahan, which was the largest culture shift I have ever seen with regards to the Huskers...literally everything after has been trying to get back to stasis

What does #4 have to do with Callahan?

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If Crawford picks football I still think Solich gets fired but it wouldn't have been for at least another few years as you would've had 2 years of Crawford at QB in '02 and '03.  Would've been interesting to see how a Solich/Pelini mix would've worked out.  NU definitely avoids the entire Callahan era...

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Seems like he missed the most obvious one.

 

Nebraska is 23-29 since Mike Nobler was let go.

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56 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I think we still leave the Big 12 even if we win in 2009.  The writing was on the wall with how Texas and OU were scheming behind the scenes.  That would not have been any different had we won.

 

For me, it's clearly the firing of Frank.  If that doesn't happen, we don't hire Callahan.  If we don't hire Callahan, the crappy, lazy, pro mentality isn't instilled into the program that has taken a very long time to get out.

 

A team winning the national championship can affect an entire conference’s perspective. Perhaps instead of the PAC looking to expand the BIG 12 is the one that expands. As it was, and very arguably is, the Big 12 was seen as weak and if conferences were going to consolidate into mega conferences then it was the BIG 12 that was threatened. A strong Nebraska may have changed that.

 

In terms of knock on effects, though, I’d say Frank by a landslide. That’s the modern nexus point of Husker football.

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1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

1. Bubba was just one player, for a limited time, heart was never in it.  No impact

2 Carl who?

3.  Winner  millions of dollars and decades worth of knowledge lost.  This set in motion 15 years of sideways and backward movement of the program.

4. Maybe 2nd most important option of those listed.  If If's and buts were candy and nuts.

5. Doesn't matter.  Our staff at that time had developed  NO plan B, so our one dimensionalness was going to be exposed anyway.  We treated Tmart like horses are getting treated at Santa Anita

 

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Not just firing Solich but who he was replaced with. I think he deserved at least one more year and with Pelini would’ve been here awhile. But firing him could’ve been okay if they’d brought in someone who fit the culture better. 

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1 hour ago, brophog said:

 

A team winning the national championship can affect an entire conference’s perspective. Perhaps instead of the PAC looking to expand the BIG 12 is the one that expands. As it was, and very arguably is, the Big 12 was seen as weak and if conferences were going to consolidate into mega conferences then it was the BIG 12 that was threatened. A strong Nebraska may have changed that.

 

In terms of knock on effects, though, I’d say Frank by a landslide. That’s the modern nexus point of Husker football.

 

I think it goes more towards Texas and OU wanting out even faster.  They would not be happy with a dominant Nebraska winning championships.  It's very possible the conference would have folded instead of expanded.  

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I think we still leave the Big 12 even if we win in 2009.  The writing was on the wall with how Texas and OU were scheming behind the scenes.  That would not have been any different had we won.

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Sure, Nebraska was fed up with the Texas favored crap.  But that wasn't anything new, Nebraska higher ups had been dealing with that since the inception of the Big 12.  What was the final straw that made Nebrask say "....screw this"?

 

mack.0.png

 

Take that 1 second away, Nebraska wins.  Nebraska has a conference title for the first time in a decade.  The frustration is subdued a bit for the time being.  It's easy to say we still leave, but I think there's a chance we don't had this^ not happened.

 

You can make a case for NOT firing Solich, but what happens if we don't?  A few more years of mediocrity before he gets fired?  I don't think there was a big turnaround coming like some think.  He had lost control of the direction, his staff and the team.  If we were happy with 9 wins a season and a Tom Osborne like guy at the helm, then sure make the case for Frank.  But I'm sticking with #4.

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3 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Sure, Nebraska was fed up with the Texas favored crap.  But that wasn't anything new, Nebraska higher ups had been dealing with that since the inception of the Big 12.  What was the final straw that made Nebrask say "....screw this"?

 

mack.0.png

 

Take that 1 second away, Nebraska wins.  Nebraska has a conference title for the first time in a decade.  The frustration is subdued a bit for the time being.  It's easy to say we still leave, but I think there's a chance we don't had this^ not happened.

 

 

Not if Texas and OU are still scheming behind the scenes to leave for the Pac 10.  If we win that game, I believe they work harder to make that happen.

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In order of significance:

 

Winning 2009 B1G Title - would have changed the perception and status of the program significantly.  Not only would it have broken the conference title drought, but we would have played a mediocre UConn team in the Fiesta bowl and had a great chance to get both a Conference Championship and a BCS Bowl win on the ledger.  Could have made a lot of things go better in the following years.

 

Taylor doesn't get hurt against Missouri in 2010 - Kind of similar to the above in that if we have any semblance of an offense in the second half of the CCG we add a title.  If we have that plus any semblance of an offense against aTm we are 12-1 with a conference title and playing in a BCS bowl game.  Changes the entire perception of the program, both for fans and recruits.

 

I'm not really sure the rest even make more than a blip of a difference but:

 

Crawford picks CFB - I was going to give this more credit but he would have overlapped a lot of Crouch's career so I'm not sure it would have made a significant difference.

 

Bubba picks football - Same as Crawford in that he would have overlapped Martinez quite a bit so I'm not sure it makes a big difference.

 

Pederson doesn't fire Solich - It was only a matter of time.  Frank hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here.

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5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I think it goes more towards Texas and OU wanting out even faster.  

 

Yet, they’re still there. 

 

 

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I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

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6 minutes ago, brophog said:

 

Yet, they’re still there. 

 

 

Because they ended up with what they wanted.  Them dominating the conference.  If Nebraska had one the championship and possibly an NC, that isn't the case.

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4 minutes ago, Mavric said:

In order of significance:

 

Winning 2009 B1G Title - would have changed the perception and status of the program significantly.  Not only would it have broken the conference title drought, but we would have played a mediocre UConn team in the Fiesta bowl and had a great chance to get both a Conference Championship and a BCS Bowl win on the ledger.  Could have made a lot of things go better in the following years.

 

Taylor doesn't get hurt against Missouri in 2010 - Kind of similar to the above in that if we have any semblance of an offense in the second half of the CCG we add a title.  If we have that plus any semblance of an offense against aTm we are 12-1 with a conference title and playing in a BCS bowl game.  Changes the entire perception of the program, both for fans and recruits.

 

I'm not really sure the rest even make more than a blip of a difference but:

 

Crawford picks CFB - I was going to give this more credit but he would have overlapped a lot of Crouch's career so I'm not sure it would have made a significant difference.

 

Bubba picks football - Same as Crawford in that he would have overlapped Martinez quite a bit so I'm not sure it makes a big difference.

 

Pederson doesn't fire Solich - It was only a matter of time.  Frank hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here.

 

I love questions like these...I'm higher on Crawford because one of my closest buddies grew up in Houston and he swears that Crawford is the best athlete to ever come out of Houston which is obviously a bold claim.  Although with Crawford's offers coming out of HS I certainly get it.  It's true he only would've been able to start for 2 years as it's hard to imagine he beats out Crouch.  The other fun part would've been seeing what Jamaal Lord would've looked like as a safety which is where he would've played if Crawford comes.  What if Crawford lives up to the hype?  That would've given Frankie 2 All-American QBs in 3 years...would've been interesting to see who he could've recruited.

 

I do agree that winning the 2009 title is probably the correct answer.

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1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Sure, Nebraska was fed up with the Texas favored crap.  But that wasn't anything new, Nebraska higher ups had been dealing with that since the inception of the Big 12.  What was the final straw that made Nebrask say "....screw this"?

 

mack.0.png

 

Take that 1 second away, Nebraska wins.  Nebraska has a conference title for the first time in a decade.  The frustration is subdued a bit for the time being.  It's easy to say we still leave, but I think there's a chance we don't had this^ not happened.

 

You can make a case for NOT firing Solich, but what happens if we don't?  A few more years of mediocrity before he gets fired?  I don't think there was a big turnaround coming like some think.  He had lost control of the direction, his staff and the team.  If we were happy with 9 wins a season and a Tom Osborne like guy at the helm, then sure make the case for Frank.  But I'm sticking with #4.

 

The biggest reason for the move to the Big Ten was the fear of Nebraska being left out of the rapidly moving conference realignment movement at the time. OU and Texas were pining for the Pac 12, and Nebraska was potentially going to be left holding the bag in a dead conference. Osborne and (whether you like it or not) Perlman did the right thing by proactively seeking an alternate home, and it wasn't based on the ending of a single football game. 

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19 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

 

#3 probably has the most what ifs and buts.  What happens if Frank isn't fired then?  Does he right the ship and win something of significance?  Do we stagger along being good but not great?  Do we totally tank in another year or two?  If Frank is fired a few more years down the line, the next coaches change but to whom and what does that look like?

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26 minutes ago, Mavric said:

In order of significance:

 

Crawford picks CFB - I was going to give this more credit but he would have overlapped a lot of Crouch's career so I'm not sure it would have made a significant difference.

 

 

 

My thought process is that 2 years of Crawford is better than 2 years of Lord, particularly for 2002, as I don't know that 7-7 happens with Crawford. 

 

On the other hand, one could argue that Crawford is merely a band-aid to mask two more years of the systemic issues that the program had under Solich...

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30 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Not if Texas and OU are still scheming behind the scenes to leave for the Pac 10.  If we win that game, I believe they work harder to make that happen.

 

Okay, say they do.  Say OU and UT are successful in leaving for the Pac 10.  Leaving 10 of us still in Big 12, including us and Colorado.  Things shake out WAY differently from there.

 

Point being, that loss set things in motion.  I think it's a much bigger factor than being given credit for.

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I think you could make a solid case that if we had not fired Frank at that time that we would still be in the big 12 probably with one to two more conference titles, AND I am not saying that Frank would have won them necessarily.  But if it were handled more prudently, a Husker coach could have.

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I go with Crawford.  2 years of him following Crouch and I don't think Solich gets fired as soon as he did.  And then we never get Cally and in turn probably never get Pelini or Riley or...

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Also, Bubba was never going to be a QB here.  He couldn't throw the ball at all (47% completion as a HS senior).  He would have ended up as a TE after a couple of years.

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4). Nebraska winning the conference.    Bo leaves for a place where he can be lazy with recruiting and have more success.    Not sure he liked the fishbowl of Lincoln.   

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30 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

On the other hand, one could argue that Crawford is merely a band-aid to mask two more years of the systemic issues that the program had under Solich...

 

This is pretty much my thought. 

 

Although if the offense was just enough better to buy Frank a couple more years and Pelini got the defense up and rolling again, maybe things work out differently.

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2 hours ago, dvdcrr said:

5. Doesn't matter.  Our staff at that time had developed  NO plan B

 

Well, I don't know about developed well, but we had Cody Green and Zac Lee behind Taylor that year (and Rex Burkhead :lol:). And they tried to get all those guys, especially Cody, real reps and experience.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Sure, Nebraska was fed up with the Texas favored crap.  But that wasn't anything new, Nebraska higher ups had been dealing with that since the inception of the Big 12.  What was the final straw that made Nebrask say "....screw this"?

 

Take that 1 second away, Nebraska wins.  Nebraska has a conference title for the first time in a decade.  The frustration is subdued a bit for the time being.  It's easy to say we still leave, but I think there's a chance we don't had this^ not happened.

 

37 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Okay, say they do.  Say OU and UT are successful in leaving for the Pac 10.  Leaving 10 of us still in Big 12, including us and Colorado.  Things shake out WAY differently from there.

 

Point being, that loss set things in motion.  I think it's a much bigger factor than being given credit for.

 

 

idk how us beating Texas would have changed any of the conference realignment. Colorado announced leaving for the Pac-10/12 before we announced leaving. Missouri announced official interest in the Big Ten before we were in that picture. Texas/A&M/OU/OSU/TT were all being courted by the Pac-10 at the time, and A&M was torn between being interested in the Pac 10 or the SEC. Everybody was flirting around and then asking us specifically to publicly declare our allegiance. And the reasons for all of the interest would've still been there had we beat Texas.

 

"One school leaving a conference does not destroy a
conference," Perlman said. "Nebraska did not start this
discussion. After the Big Ten announced it planned to consider
expansion, we saw reports that Missouri would want to go to the Big
Ten, including a statement by their governor, a member of board of
curators and chancellor -- comments that weren't clearly supportive
of the Big 12."

Nebraska athletic director Tom Osborne, the longtime football coach,
agreed.

"As we read the tea leaves and listened to the conversations,
some of the schools that were urging us to stay, we found some of
them had talked to not only one other conference or two but even
three, and those were the same ones urging us to stay," he said.

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44 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Also, Bubba was never going to be a QB here.  He couldn't throw the ball at all (47% completion as a HS senior).  He would have ended up as a TE after a couple of years.

 

Or a hell of a RZ WR. 

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1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

#3 probably has the most what ifs and buts.  What happens if Frank isn't fired then?  Does he right the ship and win something of significance?  Do we stagger along being good but not great?  Do we totally tank in another year or two?  If Frank is fired a few more years down the line, the next coaches change but to whom and what does that look like?

 

I'm not sure that scenario provides more what ifs and buts but I do get what you're saying. I guess I'm looking at it from the other side, knowing what it did cause, not necessarily what would have happened if he wasn't fired. But you're right, any hypothetical comes with a ton of possibilities.

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1 hour ago, Mavric said:

Winning 2009 B1G Title - would have changed the perception and status of the program significantly.  Not only would it have broken the conference title drought, but we would have played a mediocre UConn team in the Fiesta bowl and had a great chance to get both a Conference Championship and a BCS Bowl win on the ledger.  Could have made a lot of things go better in the following years.

 

Pederson doesn't fire Solich - It was only a matter of time.  Frank hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here.

 

Hum, a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship as most significant on your list, and a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship at his current school as least significant on your list.

 

Just to toss some numbers out...

 

Solich: 58-19 at UNL (.753), 164-94 overall as HC (.636)

Pelini: 67-27 at UNL (.713), 94-49 overall as HC(.657)

 

Solich: 3 division titles in 6 seasons at UNL, 1 championship, 7 division titles in 20 seasons overall

Pelini: 4 division titles in 7 seasons at UNL, 0 championships, 4 division titles in 11 seasons overall

 

"Solich hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

"Pelini hasn't even won a Missouri Valley title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

 

I don't think it's implausible that Solich could have won at least a division title in 2004 or 2005. Maybe even a last-second championship game controversy in one of them...

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1 hour ago, dvdcrr said:

I think you could make a solid case that if we had not fired Frank at that time that we would still be in the big 12 probably with one to two more conference titles, AND I am not saying that Frank would have won them necessarily.  But if it were handled more prudently, a Husker coach could have.

 

I pretty much agree with this but I think you're way low with only one to two more conference titles in the last 15 years. Frank may not have ever returned things to the excellence of the TO era but surely we would have remained well above average, found a much better replacement than Callahan and eeked out quite a few more CC's than any of the 3 bozos managed.

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5 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

 

I pretty much agree with this but I think you're way low with only one to two more conference titles in the last 15 years. Frank may not have ever returned things to the excellence of the TO era but surely we would have remained well above average, found a much better replacement than Callahan and eeked out quite a few more CC's than any of the 3 bozos managed.

I still think we have to of gotten rid of pederson before anything could've stayed.

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I think the idea behind Pederson not firing Solich in 2003 is that it depends on who Nebraska hires as its next head coach in 2005, 06 or 07 when Solich eventually gets fired under less "controversial" circumstances.

 

Then it just depends on who Nebraska hires. If it's someone like Ron Prince or Ron Zook, then things don't go well, maybe even worse than they have in our world.

 

But if they hire someone like Chip Kelly or Dan Mullen, then who knows where Nebraska is now. It's just butterfly effect stuff after that. 

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20 minutes ago, Toe said:

 

Hum, a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship as most significant on your list, and a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship at his current school as least significant on your list.

 

Just to toss some numbers out...

 

Solich: 58-19 at UNL (.753), 164-94 overall as HC (.636)

Pelini: 67-27 at UNL (.713), 94-49 overall as HC(.657)

 

Solich: 3 division titles in 6 seasons at UNL, 1 championship, 7 division titles in 20 seasons overall

Pelini: 4 division titles in 7 seasons at UNL, 0 championships, 4 division titles in 11 seasons overall

 

"Solich hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

"Pelini hasn't even won a Missouri Valley title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

 

I don't think it's implausible that Solich could have won at least a division title in 2004 or 2005. Maybe even a last-second championship game controversy in one of them...

 

Considering the hypothetical is "what if we would have won the conference with Pelini", that should be pretty obvious that the narrative would be different.

 

Comparing Solich's career - coming on the heels of one of the greatest runs in college football history - with Pelini's - coming off some of the worst season's we had in 60 years - doesn't exactly seem like an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Solich has been at Ohio for 14 years and hasn't won a conference title.  Pelini has been at Youngstown State for four years and made the National Championship game.  Again, not exactly apples-to-apples.

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2 minutes ago, MyBloodIsRed16 said:

What if frogs had wings?

What if my Aunt was my Uncle? 

 

What if we had never fired Pederson?  Nvm that thought sickens me.

 

I think #4 would have had the biggest impact as it would have drastically changed the trajectory of the program.  It's like we've been cursed ever since.  Hopefully that changes starting this year.

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3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

I agree.  The Callahan era were lost years that we'll never get back.  I'd take 3-4 more mediocre years with Frank if it would guarantee that neither Callahan or Riley coached here.

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3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

 

Maybe the real question should be, What if Pederson had never been hired.  He's really one the one that screwed the pooch.  He came in with one goal, get rid of Frank.  It didn't matter what Frank did that final year, he was going to be fired.  He comes out cleans house with his staff and his team wins 10 games (9 before firing) and idiot Pederson still fires him.  The guy was simply an idiot and couldn't handle the position....ps.....this firing wasn't the only really bad thing he did in the AD department.

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