Which 'What If' Would Have Caused the Biggest Change?

[Mavric]

20 minutes ago, Toe said:

 

Hum, a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship as most significant on your list, and a coach who won some division titles but never a conference championship at his current school as least significant on your list.

 

Just to toss some numbers out...

 

Solich: 58-19 at UNL (.753), 164-94 overall as HC (.636)

Pelini: 67-27 at UNL (.713), 94-49 overall as HC(.657)

 

Solich: 3 division titles in 6 seasons at UNL, 1 championship, 7 division titles in 20 seasons overall

Pelini: 4 division titles in 7 seasons at UNL, 0 championships, 4 division titles in 11 seasons overall

 

"Solich hasn't even won a MAC title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

"Pelini hasn't even won a Missouri Valley title.  Not sure why so many people think he would have done any better here."

 

I don't think it's implausible that Solich could have won at least a division title in 2004 or 2005. Maybe even a last-second championship game controversy in one of them...

 

Considering the hypothetical is "what if we would have won the conference with Pelini", that should be pretty obvious that the narrative would be different.

 

Comparing Solich's career - coming on the heels of one of the greatest runs in college football history - with Pelini's - coming off some of the worst season's we had in 60 years - doesn't exactly seem like an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Solich has been at Ohio for 14 years and hasn't won a conference title.  Pelini has been at Youngstown State for four years and made the National Championship game.  Again, not exactly apples-to-apples.

[MyBloodIsRed16]

What if frogs had wings?

[RedSavage]

2 minutes ago, MyBloodIsRed16 said:

What if frogs had wings?

What if my Aunt was my Uncle? 

 

What if we had never fired Pederson?  Nvm that thought sickens me.

 

I think #4 would have had the biggest impact as it would have drastically changed the trajectory of the program.  It's like we've been cursed ever since.  Hopefully that changes starting this year.

[4skers89]

3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

I agree.  The Callahan era were lost years that we'll never get back.  I'd take 3-4 more mediocre years with Frank if it would guarantee that neither Callahan or Riley coached here.

[BigRedBuster]

3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I'm a little flabbergasted that this isn't a clear runaway consensus for #3. Every other option requires what ifs and buts. Bubba Starling, Carl Crawford and Taylor Martinez are individual players that could have made some level of impact.....or may not have. #4 could have had interesting repercussions but still it's only one game and a lot of assumptions have to be made for the longer term affect. But Frank getting canned when and how he did, the results of that are verifiable facts that take no imagination to determine. Just think where this program would be without ever knowing the names Callahan, Pelini or Riley. 

 

Maybe the real question should be, What if Pederson had never been hired.  He's really one the one that screwed the pooch.  He came in with one goal, get rid of Frank.  It didn't matter what Frank did that final year, he was going to be fired.  He comes out cleans house with his staff and his team wins 10 games (9 before firing) and idiot Pederson still fires him.  The guy was simply an idiot and couldn't handle the position....ps.....this firing wasn't the only really bad thing he did in the AD department.

[Landlord]

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

Solich has been at Ohio for 14 years and hasn't won a conference title.  Pelini has been at Youngstown State for four years and made the National Championship game.  Again, not exactly apples-to-apples.

 

You bring this up about Solich a lot as if it means something obvious. I don't think it does. Ohio without Solich has no conference championships, no division championships, and only two bowl game appearances since 1968. Solich has no conference championships, 4 division championships, and 10 bowl appearances. So at the very least he's the best coach that  a school with no history of success, support or resources has had in 50 years. 

 

In the comparison to Pelini, YSU has a substantial amount more pedigree and history and success than Ohio does, in a lower division. And yeah Pelini made the championship game, but his three other years have been either losing seasons or one that was 6-5. His overall record is barely above .500 and overall conference record is exactly .500. Solich is well above in both regards. It's literally impossible for Frank Solich to make a national championship game as the head coach of Ohio, so that's also not exactly, as you say, apples to apples.

[lo country]

IMHO, #2 hands down.  All of the others came after the wheels fell of the cart.  Crawford comes in and Frank has a true dual threat QB to run the O after Eric.  JLO goes to safety and lays the wood on ball carriers instead of defenders.  We don't go 7-7 and we don't see Cally hired.....

[Mavric]

2 minutes ago, Landlord said:

You bring this up about Solich a lot as if it means something obvious. I don't think it does. Ohio without Solich has no conference championships, no division championships, and only two bowl game appearances since 1968. Solich has no conference championships, 4 division championships, and 10 bowl appearances. So at the very least he's the best coach that  a school with no history of success, support or resources has had in 50 years. 

 

In the comparison to Pelini, YSU has a substantial amount more pedigree and history and success than Ohio does, in a lower division. And yeah Pelini made the championship game, but his three other years have been either losing seasons or one that was 6-5. His overall record is barely above .500 and overall conference record is exactly .500. Solich is well above in both regards. It's literally impossible for Frank Solich to make a national championship game as the head coach of Ohio, so that's also not exactly, as you say, apples to apples.

 

How can not winning a conference championship not have any bearing on how good a coach is?  Being the best coach at a bad school doesn't make you a good coach.  If you can't get it done in 14 years, it's pretty obvious that you don't really have what it takes. 

 

Shouldn't a pretty good Power 5 coach be able to win a MAC title in 14 years?  If the answer is yes, then I think the obvious conclusion is he isn't a very good Power 5 coach.

 

My point about comparing Solich and Pelini post-Nebraska is Pelini has gotten significantly farther in 4 years than Solich has in 14.  Yes, it's not a perfect comparison because they don't have the same playoff formats but it's also 4 years vs. 14.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Hey this is fun.

 

So I'll play devil's advocate.

 

We'll never know about Solich. For those too young to remember, Frank's 7-7 season was a gut punch to most Husker fans, especially those who wondered how Frank would fare after the Osborne recruits ran dry. The 9-3 season was a legitimate rebound, but even loyal Husker fans were nervous that the team looked second tier and recruiting was trending downward. We could point out that Frank went on to have a perfectly nice career at Ohio but never latched on to another Power 5 team. Add in the off-field issues, and there's the argument that letting Solich go wasn't the mistake. It was assuming any available candidate would want the job.

 

If Martinez doesn't get injured? Man, that did feel like a turning point. For six weeks, Nebraska was the hottest thing in college football. But.....that same team with a healthy Martinez had already looked vulnerable against South Dakota State, and genuinely awful losing to unranked Texas. And the Taylor Martinez who made the most incredible runs of his life in 2012 had clearly regained his moves and his speed, and was an even better passer. 2010 was the beginning of Nebraska's defensive decline. There's not a single "what if" there, but that's where a lot of problems started. 

 

A couple more.

 

If Bo Pelini's 2014 team had rebounded from the Wisconsin embarrassment and beaten an unranked Minnesota team at Memorial Stadium the next week, Eichorst could not have fired him. I doubt if Pelini has a breakthrough in his 8th season,  but we wouldn't have Riley, and we probably wouldn't have Frost either. 

 

Joe Ganz has one more year of eligibility. That 2009 defense is backed by Ganz-led offense. It's not so much about the :01 on the clock against Texas anymore. It's a legitimate National Championship contender. 

 

And most recently:  the Akron game doesn't get cancelled last year. That caused some really unhappy dominoes to fall. Easy to see three more wins in Frost's first season. Ultimately though, not much change. Optimism for season two and a lower bar to clear for improvement. 

[Redux]

4 hours ago, Landlord said:

idk how us beating Texas would have changed any of the conference realignment. Colorado announced leaving for the Pac-10/12 before we announced leaving. Missouri announced official interest in the Big Ten before we were in that picture. Texas/A&M/OU/OSU/TT were all being courted by the Pac-10 at the time, and A&M was torn between being interested in the Pac 10 or the SEC. Everybody was flirting around and then asking us specifically to publicly declare our allegiance. And the reasons for all of the interest would've still been there had we beat Texas.

 

Because everything you mention happens after the 2009 title game.  It's just an opinion, I'm not saying it's bullet proof fact.  I think the way that game ended was the straw that broke the camel's back.  Very small things can be responsible for big things.  I think what, a plane delay prevented Houston Nutt from becoming Nebraska HC.  Butterfly Effect.

[lo country]

3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Hey this is fun.

 

So I'll play devil's advocate.

 

We'll never know about Solich. For those too young to remember, Frank's 7-7 season was a gut punch to most Husker fans, especially those who wondered how Frank would fare after the Osborne recruits ran dry. The 9-3 season was a legitimate rebound, but even loyal Husker fans were nervous that the team looked second tier and recruiting was trending downward. We could point out that Frank went on to have a perfectly nice career at Ohio but never latched on to another Power 5 team. Add in the off-field issues, and there's the argument that letting Solich go wasn't the mistake. It was assuming any available candidate would want the job.

 

If Martinez doesn't get injured? Man, that did feel like a turning point. For six weeks, Nebraska was the hottest thing in college football. But.....that same team with a healthy Martinez had already looked vulnerable against South Dakota State, and genuinely awful losing to unranked Texas. And the Taylor Martinez who made the most incredible runs of his life in 2012 had clearly regained his moves and his speed, and was an even better passer. 2010 was the beginning of Nebraska's defensive decline. There's not a single "what if" there, but that's where a lot of problems started. 

 

A couple more.

 

If Bo Pelini's 2014 team had rebounded from the Wisconsin embarrassment and beaten an unranked Minnesota team at Memorial Stadium the next week, Eichorst could not have fired him. I doubt if Pelini has a breakthrough in his 8th season,  but we wouldn't have Riley, and we probably wouldn't have Frost either. 

 

Joe Ganz has one more year of eligibility. That 2009 defense is backed by Ganz-led offense. It's not so much about the :01 on the clock against Texas anymore. It's a legitimate National Championship contender. 

 

And most recently:  the Akron game doesn't get cancelled last year. That caused some really unhappy dominoes to fall. Easy to see three more wins in Frost's first season. Ultimately though, not much change. Optimism for season two and a lower bar to clear for improvement. 

There is so much truth to this statement.  I think we averaged like 4 points per game that year.........Ganz was still QB in 2009, we are National champions.

[Redux]

9 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

If Bo Pelini's 2014 team had rebounded from the Wisconsin embarrassment and beaten an unranked Minnesota team at Memorial Stadium the next week, Eichorst could not have fired him. I doubt if Pelini has a breakthrough in his 8th season,  but we wouldn't have Riley, and we probably wouldn't have Frost either. 

 

Joe Ganz has one more year of eligibility. That 2009 defense is backed by Ganz-led offense. It's not so much about the :01 on the clock against Texas anymore. It's a legitimate National Championship contender. 

 

And most recently:  the Akron game doesn't get cancelled last year. That caused some really unhappy dominoes to fall. Easy to see three more wins in Frost's first season. Ultimately though, not much change. Optimism for season two and a lower bar to clear for improvement. 

 

Yeah he could and would have, because he was a s#!t AD and was hired specifically to fire Bo.  Just my opinion.

 

Yeah part of me wishes Ganz got hurt in 2008 in like Game 2 so we could have redshirted him for 2009.  We go 13-0 with him at helm and it's almost not debatable.

 

Akron being canceled directly caused us to lose to Colorado, convince me otherwise.

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

 

Solich has been at Ohio for 14 years and hasn't won a conference title.  Pelini has been at Youngstown State for four years and made the National Championship game.  Again, not exactly apples-to-apples.

 

Wait. What? 

 

Bo Pelini is 27-22 at Youngstown State. He inherited a 7-5 team and coached them to a 5-6 record. He also got two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties that killed a potential winning drive in the final game.

 

He was 4-7 in his fourth season, coaching his exclusive recruits. 

 

Hat's off for getting the the FCS Championship in 2016. Seriously. That's an accomplishment.

 

But as with Frank, no Power 5 school has come calling for Bo Pelini to capitalize on the mistake Nebraska made. Because Nebraska didn't make a mistake. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

7 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

 

Akron being canceled directly caused us to lose to Colorado, convince me otherwise.

 

I'm going even further. We play like we did against Colorado and we beat Akron. With the bugs out we play even better against Colorado and win going away. Hard to imagine that team doesn't beat Troy and Nebraska is 3-0 going into Michigan, where we would definitely lose but not in such helpless fashion.

 

Maybe Frost's first Huskers are still due a meltdown game, but they lose to either Purdue or Northwestern, but not both. If they're the slightest bit better, they could trip up Ohio State or Iowa.  By this time they're going to a bowl game. Maybe a good one. 

 

In the end, it's still about seasons two, three, and four. So the "what ifs" are pretty temporary. 

[TheSker]

36 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

But as with Frank, no Power 5 school has come calling for Bo Pelini to capitalize on the mistake Nebraska made. Because Nebraska didn't make a mistake. 

And Nebraska capitalized on the mistake that wasn't made by hiring the career .500 mistake that Oregon State made.  Twice.