The Biden / Ukraine Scandal

[Nebfanatic]

3 minutes ago, Apsu said:

 

It did lay things out quite well, with a few assumtions thrown in... like assuming that this was about any real effort to clean up corruption. it was a war of influence, and a favor was done to remove an opponent.

 

 

I'm confused at how you can say this when most of the western world agreed the guy was corrupt and needed to go. If it wasn't Biden doing the pushing it would have been someone else as pressure was coming from other countries.

[Apsu]

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I'm confused at how you can say this when most of the western world agreed the guy was corrupt and needed to go. If it wasn't Biden doing the pushing it would have been someone else as pressure was coming from other countries.

 

You just said it yourself... "most of the western world agreed".

As I said it was a war of influence between Russian friendly politicians and NATO friendly politicians. Neither side is good for Ukraine, both just wanted to loot it of resources. Most independent analyses of post Maidan Ukraine acknowledge that the IMF stepped in to sell off most of the country's resources to western interests for pennies on the dollar.

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Apsu said:

 

You just said it yourself... "most of the western world agreed".

As I said it was a war of influence between Russian friendly politicians and NATO friendly politicians. Neither side is good for Ukraine, both just wanted to loot it of resources. Most independent analyses of post Maidan Ukraine acknowledge that the IMF stepped in to sell off most of the country's resources to western interests for pennies on the dollar.

None of that has anything to do with whether Biden was peddling influence to get preferential treatment for his son.

[Nebfanatic]

3 minutes ago, Apsu said:

 

You just said it yourself... "most of the western world agreed".

As I said it was a war of influence between Russian friendly politicians and NATO friendly politicians. Neither side is good for Ukraine, both just wanted to loot it of resources. Most independent analyses of post Maidan Ukraine acknowledge that the IMF stepped in to sell off most of the country's resources to western interests for pennies on the dollar.

While that is wrong, I don't see how that creates dirt on Biden as he was still working on behalf of US interests.

[Cdog923]

1 hour ago, Apsu said:

 

People who hate Trump see things one way, and people who hate Biden see it a different way. Despite being a Republican, Dowd is on record as agreeing with Hillary that Trump supporters were "deplorables". Analysis from independents would be much preferred to people who already have preexisting biases.

 

Well, half of them have the rule of law on their side, and half of them don't. 

[Apsu]

9 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

None of that has anything to do with whether Biden was peddling influence to get preferential treatment for his son.

 

But it did address your comment.

As I posted above, I will present some info later after I put my children to bed.

8 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

Well, half of them have the rule of law on their side, and half of them don't. 

 

And both sides disagree which is which.

[knapplc]

This whole thread is a laugh.

 

You people are falling for Trump's distraction. I knew it would go like this.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me. 

[ZRod]

 

@Apsu

What are you even arguing here? A corrupt official in Ukraine was forced out do to Biden and the EU exerting pressure on a Ukraine that needed, and wanted, their help. The EU and Ukraine have been working to become closer for decades, in ways that will be mutually beneficial.

 

Again, a small investigation could be done into the Biden connection, but nothing will be found. At this point with all the information that is available it makes zero since for the Biden's to want the prosecutor gone. He was notorious for stonewalling corruption investigations, and it seems he could have been easily paid off. Why risk, in fact demand, that Ukraine bring in someone who was serious about fighting corruption if you think they may come after your team???

[Nebfanatic]

22 minutes ago, knapplc said:

This whole thread is a laugh.

 

You people are falling for Trump's distraction. I knew it would go like this.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me. 

Who ya callin 'you people' huh? 

[teachercd]

I love that some people think other people are "falling" for something.  This is a message board, it takes about 8 seconds to scroll and reply.  Oh and nothing posted here is going to impact anything.  

[Nebfanatic]

So when are we getting that explaination of Bidens massive corruption? 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Apsu]

13 hours ago, ZRod said:

 

@Apsu

What are you even arguing here? A corrupt official in Ukraine was forced out do to Biden and the EU exerting pressure on a Ukraine that needed, and wanted, their help. The EU and Ukraine have been working to become closer for decades, in ways that will be mutually beneficial.

 

I am a loyal and patriotic American citizen, but I am under no illusion that our corporations and the political leadership beholden to them (such as Trump, Biden, Clinton, etc) are as corrupt as heck, and are not working for the good of the Ukrainian people.

[Apsu]

I am no expert in these matters, but when I see this i see smoke. And where there is smoke there is often fire.

I support an investigation into the impeachment of Trump, and I would also like to see a qui--pro-quo investigation on Biden's role here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin

 

Quote

 

Since 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general had been investigating oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the oil and natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption. In 2014, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings. In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts". Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma, to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.

In March 2016, Joe Biden threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that if he did not fire Shokin, that the US would hold back its $1 billion in loan guarantees. "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Shokin was dismissed by Parliament later that month.

Shokin claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings. However, Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016 citing corruption in the office, provided documents to Bloomberg News indicating that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant. Hunter Biden's ties to Burisma Holdings was criticized as a conflict of interest in a New York Times editorial, though Amos Hochstein has claimed to have never seen coordination between Joe Biden and his son on the matter.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

Quote

In the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Mykola Zlochevsky assembled a "high-profile international board" to oversee his oil and gas company, Burisma Holdings, the largest natural gas producer in Ukraine. Among those who joined the board of directors in 2014 were Biden and former Polish president Aleksander Kwasniewski. Biden served on the board of Burisma until his term expired in April 2019, receiving compensation of up to $50,000 a month. Because Vice President Biden played a major role in U.S. policy towards Ukraine, some Ukrainian anti-corruption advocates and Obama administration officials expressed concern that Hunter Biden's having joined the board could create the appearance of a conflict of interest and undermine Vice President Biden's anti-corruption work in Ukraine. While serving as vice president, Joe Biden joined other Western leaders in encouraging the government of Ukraine to fire the country's top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who was widely criticized for blocking corruption investigations. The Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Shokin in March 2016.