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Trump's Syria Atrocities


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4 hours ago, Apsu said:

 

War creates dynamic situations, things do not always go as planned. I can see how this mistake was made, but we should never have been in a position to allow it to happen.

 

ISIS is not a homogeneous group. Different state actors support (especially the Turks and Saudis) and oppose different groups within it. Some accuse the US and our Kurdish allies of claiming military victories over friendly ISIS while allowing them to escape and redeploy elsewhere. Some of those prison camps are real prison camps, others are military bases being readied to spring into action when liberated by their Turkish allies.

Well i guess that's ok then as long as erdogan only slaughters the kurds to free friendly isis fighters. Maybe once he's done he can use them to set up a puppet government like the turks have done in north Cyprus.

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4 hours ago, Apsu said:

 

The error in your analysis, is that I and other people like me would learn to make McRibs [a progressive candidate] ourselves and not rely on McDonalds [the DNC controlled Democrats] to supply them for us.

In doing so, the fate of Burger King [the Republicans] would not be relevant, and McDonalds [the DNC] would go out of business.

 

This is how the justice democrats were created in a nutshell

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@Apsu We disagree on a lot of fundamental stuff, but I find that's the case with myself and a lot of progressives. I hold a lot of progressive ideals, but I also disagree a lot with the current leftist consensus. I guess I'm kind of a bit of an odd liberal, in a lot of ways.

 

As far as this goes:

 

Quote

The DNC has very significant control over who runs as a Democrat. They have admitted in court to legally cheating in the 2016 primary to favor Clinton over Sanders. Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate who alienated progressives, and a significant number of us did not VBNMW. We believe that Sanders would have easily beaten Trump in 2016, and can do so again in 2020. Trump cannot stop a progressive from becoming the president, and in our two party system only the DNC can stop him. That is why I oppose the DMC and corporate Democrats, and not the Republicans. 

 

The bolded is where you lose me. I think you're just completely misguided and overconfident if you think beating Trump simply requires nominating a progressive. TBH I'd disagree that Bernie would easily have beat Trump in 2016, even though it's easy to look back and say anyone would have been better than Clinton. If you recall, Bernie & Trump in the general was rumored to have prompted Bloomberg to jump in as a third-party centrist ala Ross Perot. IMO that situation winds up with no one getting to 270 and the Republican House sure wasn't going to pick Sanders over Trump or Bloomberg. They'd have to pick Trump or their base would've revolted.

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1 hour ago, knapplc said:

Blood on Trump's hands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen 3 different points of view on her death. I think the most likely one is she was killed "by an ISIS sleeper cell," which never would have happened if Trump hadn't bent over and told Turkey to do whatever the f#&% they wanted.

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1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

@Apsu We disagree on a lot of fundamental stuff, but I find that's the case with myself and a lot of progressives. I hold a lot of progressive ideals, but I also disagree a lot with the current leftist consensus. I guess I'm kind of a bit of an odd liberal, in a lot of ways.

 

As far as this goes:

 

 

The bolded is where you lose me. I think you're just completely misguided and overconfident if you think beating Trump simply requires nominating a progressive. TBH I'd disagree that Bernie would easily have beat Trump in 2016, even though it's easy to look back and say anyone would have been better than Clinton. If you recall, Bernie & Trump in the general was rumored to have prompted Bloomberg to jump in as a third-party centrist ala Ross Perot. IMO that situation winds up with no one getting to 270 and the Republican House sure wasn't going to pick Sanders over Trump or Bloomberg. They'd have to pick Trump or their base would've revolted.

I strongly disagree with the bolded. Bloomberg wouldn't have even sniffed 1% of the vote, which is why Bloomberg isn't running now and we just saw that play out with Howard Schultz. Bernie had significant leads over Trump in every head-to-head poll I saw in 2016, while Hillary was around even to 3% lead over Trump. I mean, even as bad as a candidate as Hillary was, she only lost because of a combination of factors including her email scandal and Comey's bizarre reopening and reclosing of that case right before the election - and Hillary still won the popular vote. I think it's safe to say Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 given what we know. But that also doesn't mean any progressive candidate would have beaten Trump or that a progressive candidate would beat Trump this time.

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7 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I strongly disagree with the bolded. Bloomberg wouldn't have even sniffed 1% of the vote, which is why Bloomberg isn't running now and we just saw that play out with Howard Schultz. Bernie had significant leads over Trump in every head-to-head poll I saw in 2016, while Hillary was around even to 3% lead over Trump. I mean, even as bad as a candidate as Hillary was, she only lost because of a combination of factors including her email scandal and Comey's bizarre reopening and reclosing of that case right before the election - and Hillary still won the popular vote. I think it's safe to say Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 given what we know. But that also doesn't mean any progressive candidate would have beaten Trump or that a progressive candidate would beat Trump this time.

 

It's fine if you disagree. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

What makes you think Bloomberg wouldn't accrue 1% of the vote? Perot pulled nearly 19% in '92 and Nader almost 3% in 2000. Both show what a viable third party option can do and how they can swing an election, even if they can't win.

 

And besides, he was only planning to hop in during a general where he perceived the only two options to be too extreme, not early on during the primary like Schultz did.

 

I think it's entirely plausible Bloomberg could've tossed an election to Trump and most of us would've hated him for it.

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4 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

@Apsu We disagree on a lot of fundamental stuff, but I find that's the case with myself and a lot of progressives. I hold a lot of progressive ideals, but I also disagree a lot with the current leftist consensus. I guess I'm kind of a bit of an odd liberal, in a lot of ways.

 

The bolded is where you lose me. I think you're just completely misguided and overconfident if you think beating Trump simply requires nominating a progressive. TBH I'd disagree that Bernie would easily have beat Trump in 2016, even though it's easy to look back and say anyone would have been better than Clinton. If you recall, Bernie & Trump in the general was rumored to have prompted Bloomberg to jump in as a third-party centrist ala Ross Perot. IMO that situation winds up with no one getting to 270 and the Republican House sure wasn't going to pick Sanders over Trump or Bloomberg. They'd have to pick Trump or their base would've revolted.

 

That's fine, I don't expect that I will be in agreement with everyone.

As long as we can respectfully disagree while understanding the other's values, we'll get along fine.

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4 hours ago, LumberJackSker said:

Turkey has no business being in a western military alliance as long as Erdogan is in power.  

 

The objective is to keep Turkey in the military alliance (but not the EU), and to distance them as far as possible from Russia and Iran.

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1 minute ago, Apsu said:

 

The objective is to keep Turkey in the military alliance (but not the EU), and to distance them as far as possible from Russia and Iran.

You cant do that as long as Erdogan is in power. He isn't on our side, he a extremist. The fact we store nukes in that country is alarming. Hopefully he's ousted in their upcoming election but he'll just fake the results if he loses.

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