DC

[Undone]

Just now, Nebfanatic said:

There isn't in the grand scheme of things. Some teams use it as a tool but its one of the lesser factors on determining the winner. 

 

A very reasonable take.

 

As it pertains to Iowa, my main contention is that they have the fifth ranked total defense in the country  not really at all because of their offensive philosophy. It's because their staff knows what it takes to stop the run in this conference and crafts a team around that goal.

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

It just seems like the defensive style & philosophy isn't built to stop the run, because it has sucked against the run. And if this is supposed to be an aggressive "risk taking" defense, we're somehow abjectly failing there also, judging by the stats that were posted yesterday about hurries & sacks being relatively abysmal for us this season.

 

 

I'd attribute this more to not having the personnel to run the defense more than anything.

 

I mean, we haven't had a good edge rusher since what, Randy Gregory?

 

[TheSker]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

It just seems like the defensive style & philosophy isn't built to stop the run, because it has sucked against the run. And if this is supposed to be an aggressive "risk taking" defense, we're somehow abjectly failing there also, judging by the stats that were posted yesterday about hurries & sacks being relatively abysmal for us this season.

 

We've also been pretty bad at keeping teams out of the end zone once they reach the red zone. 

 

My main point originally is that our defensive philosophy is somehow tied to our offensive philosophy, a change needs to be made on defense because clearly Frost hasn't been able to just waltz all over teams to the tune of 40+ per game. I have a feeling that he thought it would be that easy, but as it turns out, there's a high level of defensive quality in this conference and at this point that doesn't seem to be how it's going to go. So perhaps some adjustments to our defensive philosophy wouldn't hurt. That's my main argument.

I think a lot of people are going to be less critical of things like scheme and philosophy as we get the proper personnel and as depth gets better.

 

Our staff is well aware of what it's going to take.  I mean, before he was hired we gushed over Frost's resume and now we sometimes act like he doesn't know what good football looks like.

 

He got bloodied by the mid 90s defense every day as a player on scout team when he transferred.......

 

As far as offense, we are putting up awesome yardage numbers.  We will start finishing this drives with just a little more from our offensive line.

 

The puzzle pieces are falling into place.

[knapplc]

Just now, Undone said:

 

A very reasonable take.

 

As it pertains to Iowa, my main contention is that they have the fifth ranked total defense in the country  not really at all because of their offensive philosophy. It's because their staff knows what it takes to stop the run in this conference and crafts a team around that goal.

 

Wisconsin was #2 in the country before playing us.  Now they're #6.

[Huskerzoo]

1 minute ago, Undone said:

 

It just seems like the defensive style & philosophy isn't built to stop the run, because it has sucked against the run. And if this is supposed to be an aggressive "risk taking" defense, we're somehow abjectly failing there also, judging by the stats that were posted yesterday about hurries & sacks being relatively abysmal for us this season.

 

We've also been pretty bad at keeping teams out of the end zone once they reach the red zone. 

 

My main point originally is that if our defensive philosophy is somehow tied to our offensive philosophy, a change needs to be made on defense because clearly Frost hasn't been able to just waltz all over teams to the tune of 40+ per game. I have a feeling that he thought it would be that easy, but as it turns out, there's a high level of defensive quality in this conference and at this point that doesn't seem to be how it's going to go. So perhaps some adjustments to our defensive philosophy wouldn't hurt. That's my main argument.

 

I don't disagree with you, but I'm not so anti what's been going on. I think essentially there are two forms of defense, in one you force the other team to play perfectly. They grind out a few yards at a time and as long as they play perfectly they could probably drive and score. This is what I associate with teams like Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan State. Not a ton of teams have the discipline and execution to be able to grind it out like that. These are complimented by ball control offenses as you're not going to get a lot of quick strikes, so if you get the lead it's hard for the other team to come back from being down. 

 

I think the other type of defense is where you force the other team to make mistakes. You're going to get chunked here and there, but eventually the other team is going to be doing things they don't want to do and it's going to go your way. This is better used by teams with high scoring offenses as it forces teams to utilizes more risky plays. 

 

There are without a doubt teams that can be high scoring and still be ball control. Wisconsin a few years ago was like this. There are teams where they are so talented or deep they can do whatever they want. I think OSU this game is a good example of that. 

 

I don't agree with your main point, but I 100% see where you're coming from. Given our personnel, I'm really not sure what adjustments we could be making. We dismissed three guys from the team on one side of the ball we thought would be contributing and even if we didn't, the inside of our OL is weak and one of our tackles is playing out of position (even if he is giving it his all). It seems as though we've isolated the bad apples to the D side of the ball (I might be reading into things here), so there's culture issues, we also have LBs who can't execute their assignment or take a good angle with any consistency. It's entirely possible it might be a coaching issue, but it may just be the cards you're dealt.  Off suit 2-7 only has so many outs. You wait until you get dealt a new hand and do the best to minimize your losses. 

[Undone]

1 minute ago, TheSker said:

 I mean, before he was hired we gushed over Frost's resume and now we sometimes act like he doesn't know what good football looks like.

 

I will no doubt take flak for this comment, but I will say that the first thing I did at around the 2/3 point in the 2017 season when it became pretty clear we were going to fire Riley for Frost was look up Chinander and what he was doing.

 

And I was immediately disappointed. Take that for what it's worth. 

[gossamorharpy]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

I think both of these get corrected with a good offensive line.

 

Give us Wisconsin's O Line the last two years and we finish drives and put more points on the board, keep our defense off the field a little bit longer, and we probably win half the games we've lost since Frost started.

100% agree.  Confident there will be a correction soon given the size and caliber Frosty is bring onboard

[Undone]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Wisconsin was #2 in the country before playing us.  Now they're #6.

I singled out Iowa to point out a team that has an identify built around stopping the run.

[Undone]

3 minutes ago, TheSker said:

I think a lot of people are going to be less critical of things like scheme and philosophy as we get the proper personnel and as depth gets better.

 

It's not as if I have ever once said that I think a team full of Phillip Dillards, Lavonte Davids, Pierre Allens and Jared Cricks wouldn't be putting up better results this year, 'Sker.

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

I singled out Iowa to point out a team that has an identify built around stopping the run.

 

Wisconsin is #12 in the country at Rush Defense.

 

Iowa is #16.

 

And that's currently,  after Wiscy played us and Iowa hasn't.

 

 

[Undone]

4 minutes ago, Huskerzoo said:

I don't agree with your main point, but I 100% see where you're coming from. Given our personnel, I'm really not sure what adjustments we could be making.

 

I feel like the unspoken point here is this assumption that next year, the year after that, or three years from now we're guaranteed to have an offense that does exactly what 2017 UCF did (but does it in the B1G). This may never actually occur. 

So if your original theory is correct about the complimentary schemes and we struggle on offense next year, I'd expect to struggle greatly on defense next year, also. 

 

Obviously I do not hope such a thing happens. I want to win again.

[Undone]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Wisconsin is #12 in the country at Rush Defense.

 

Iowa is #16.

 

And that's currently,  after Wiscy played us and Iowa hasn't.

 

 

 

And we're 92nd, after playing what was touted as being one of our weakest schedules in years.

[TheSker]

6 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

It's not as if I have ever once said that I think a team full of Phillip Dillards, Lavonte Davids, Pierre Allens and Jared Cricks wouldn't be putting up better results this year, 'Sker.

Ryan Held just last week said recruiting is the lifeblood of the program.

 

We will soon be scoring plenty of points (which we would be now if we could finish), we'll be stopping the run and we'll be causing turnovers.

[4skers89]

24 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

I actually pretty much agree with this, but it's a little funny because I specifically remember quite a few conversations on here by some people (one might have been brophog) claiming there is no correlation between time of possession and outcome.

Yes it was brophog.  Also "It's an alternate possession game".  He would say it at least twice a week.  I wonder what happened to him.

 

Edit.  I hope the team didn't drive him into the dredge.  

[Huskerzoo]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

I feel like the unspoken point here is this assumption that next year, the year after that, or three years from now we're guaranteed to have an offense that does exactly what 2017 UCF did (but does it in the B1G). This may never actually occur. 

So if your original theory is correct about the complimentary schemes and we struggle on offense next year, I'd expect to struggle greatly on defense next year, also. 

 

Obviously I do not hope such a thing happens. I want to win again.

 

You're absolutely right and that's a very fair concern. 

 

I think to kind of bring in what @knapplc has been saying, it feels like there are reasons to believe in the offense.  Last season we could see it there and we thought we had *it* with Mo & 2AM. I don't think anyone thought our OL would be the way it is this season or that we would be booting Mo from the team forever/for now. Then we have this game against WI and we're cranking out yards against a good team. So we're optimistic again because we see what could be. More so when you think of the interior of our line having another year of experience and perhaps with players in their natural positions. We'll have some depth at almost every position on the OL, plus we keep all of our play makers pending any surprises. Frankly, I think our Red Zone problems are a function of not having the right sized bodies on the line yet. I don't think we can overstate how weird our OL recruitment was under Riley. 

 

We also see hope for our LB play improving, but I think if we did a straw poll, more people would say they worry about our D than O going into next season. 

 

It's a wait and see situation, but given the past two seasons and the context surrounding the last two seasons I'm 100% sold on our O. I understand what we're going for and I think we'll get there and soon. With the D, I want to see what we do with the right linebackers.