Iowa...what did learn?

[huskerfan74]

I already posted what I learned from this game but what I would really like to learn is whether Frost is stubborn or persistent. Seriously, this question has been on my mind for a while now but yesterday’s game emphasized it. For example, he continued to call for swing passes that were ineffective. The majority of the swing passes either resulted in no gain or negative gain yet he continued to call them. Also, I am confident that he noticed that Martinez was struggling yet he stuck with him in key moments of the game. So, is that persistence on his part thinking that if he continued to call swing passes and continue with Martinez eventually something good is going to happen or simply stubbornness on his part. I would really like to know the answer to this question because this will tell us a lot about what to expect going into the next two BRUTAL Years in terms of schedule and away games.

[Huckleberry Muhammad]

The OP's 6-6 sounds right to me for next year.  But it sounded right for me as a minimum for this year, as I bit on the Adrian Martinez hype and grew hope on the Scott Frost hype.

 

As for Scott Frost, I feel like I got to know him better.  Yes, all we can do is look at him on the sidelines over there (yes, I'm one of those dorks with binoculars and not just for the cheerleaders and dancers), read his quotes in the paper, watch his pressers.   I see/hear too many repeated cliches come from his mouth, and when we see somebody doing that we get the feeling that that person lacks creativity, critical thinking, cleverness.  I watch him spit his snuff loogies around and stare at his play sheet.  I see him call plays that smack of just plain naive, immature thinking.

 

The whole thing gives me the feeling that I got when I heard about and saw photos of some unbathed guru from India decades ago being given a Rolls Royce.  He crashed it right away and complained about the roads.

[Aliens05]

The thing about is....even if the coaches have watched hours of film and thought the swing pass was going to work on Iowa....that doesn't explain trying it all game in just about every single game of the season.....did every team's film show our coaches that this play was going to work and just somehow with bad luck it just didn't end up working in every single game?

[Igetbored216]

16 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

You definitely aren't.  You microwave your meals.

 

You also don't get to call your opinions facts.  So enjoy thinking you're an awesome chef with that Kraft mac'n' cheese.

Did you have a bad day? Are you okay? 

[Igetbored216]

3 hours ago, Aliens05 said:

The thing about is....even if the coaches have watched hours of film and thought the swing pass was going to work on Iowa....that doesn't explain trying it all game in just about every single game of the season.....did every team's film show our coaches that this play was going to work and just somehow with bad luck it just didn't end up working in every single game?

Don't question Coach Frost. Blitz will lose his mind. He's very sensitive when it comes to questioning Coach Frost, even when it was obvious that the swing passes to the WRs were not working. This isn't an opinion. This is a fact. You can go back to all the swing pass plays to WRs and see they were not working. 

[Dbqgolfer]

I learned that we are now 3-9 in 1 possession games under Scott Frost (1-5 in 2018, 2-4 in 2019).  If we just go 6-6 in those games, we finish each year 6-6 and a bowl bid.

[Igetbored216]

21 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

Actually, no...it's not about questioning him.  It's about people here stating their opinions as fact and calling for coaches to be fired.  It's pure stupidity and it's what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

For every swing pass that didn't make positive yardage...I guarantee you we had plenty that have positive yardage.  I remember the 75 yarder to Washington vs Colorado.  Plenty of others to Wandale and JD have netted plenty of yards this year.

 

What you've done is create a narrative that all our swing passes are bad because you don't like the results from Iowa.  That's it.  And it's a piss poor argument NOT based on facts.

 

 

I argue for patience.  Not having it is what got us into this mess.  Let Frost recruit and develop.

I haven't created any narrative. I stated the swing passes to the WRs were not working. They weren't working. The stats back this up. I don't really care how they worked in the past. Against Iowa, they were not working. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

21 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

Actually, no...it's not about questioning him.  It's about people here stating their opinions as fact and calling for coaches to be fired.  It's pure stupidity and it's what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

For every swing pass that didn't make positive yardage...I guarantee you we had plenty that have positive yardage.  I remember the 75 yarder to Washington vs Colorado.  Plenty of others to Wandale and JD have netted plenty of yards this year.

 

What you've done is create a narrative that all our swing passes are bad because you don't like the results from Iowa.  That's it.  And it's a piss poor argument NOT based on facts.

 

 

I argue for patience.  Not having it is what got us into this mess.  Let Frost recruit and develop.

 

All well and good.

 

Except for the part about the swing passes. They've been a problem all year, as noted by pretty much everybody. Frost uses them on first and second downs to replace between the tackle runs, but they end up being higher risk than reward, especially as Martinez has increasingly thrown behind the RBs, and opposing DCs know this part of Frost's repertoire and almost always have plenty of guys waiting. 

 

Swing passes do help open the running lanes later on, even if they're not always successful, but it's not working as the bread & butter play. 

[Nebfanatic]

I'm starting to think we should just go with @Thurston from Penders idea of letting the fans call the plays. I wonder what the fans will say when their plays aren't working 

[The Dude]

Reading the thread title makes my eye twitch.

 

[Igetbored216]

18 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

No they don't.

 

We've made more yards on the year on swing passes than we've lost.

 

Stats don't back you up.

 

We averaged 1.5 yards positive IN THE IOWA GAME.  So it wasn't a good game...but we lost Kanoa and he was a better perimeter blocker than most...so I'd imagine that's partially to blame.

 

Overall, our swing passes worked well this year. 

A whole 1.5 yards? Wow. I retract my statement. We should have thrown more. Sorry, I think we have different definitions of "working". 

 

And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up this year. I was specifically talking about the Iowa game. This is an Iowa game thread. 

[alexhortdog95]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:31 AM, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

The OP's 6-6 sounds right to me for next year.  But it sounded right for me as a minimum for this year, as I bit on the Adrian Martinez hype and grew hope on the Scott Frost hype.

 

As for Scott Frost, I feel like I got to know him better.  Yes, all we can do is look at him on the sidelines over there (yes, I'm one of those dorks with binoculars and not just for the cheerleaders and dancers), read his quotes in the paper, watch his pressers.   I see/hear too many repeated cliches come from his mouth, and when we see somebody doing that we get the feeling that that person lacks creativity, critical thinking, cleverness.  I watch him spit his snuff loogies around and stare at his play sheet.  I see him call plays that smack of just plain naive, immature thinking.

 

The whole thing gives me the feeling that I got when I heard about and saw photos of some unbathed guru from India decades ago being given a Rolls Royce.  He crashed it right away and complained about the roads.

 

He goes 6-6 next year, he's gonna be on the chopping block real quick in year 4.

 

[Landlord]

On 12/1/2019 at 8:31 AM, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

I see/hear too many repeated cliches come from his mouth

 

On 12/1/2019 at 8:31 AM, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

I watch him spit his snuff loogies around and stare at his play sheet.

 

 

 

 

Wow I never thought about it before but you're right. WTH is up with Frost? I've never seen any other coach have cliche coach speak answers, chew tobacco or call plays off a piece of paper before!

[alexhortdog95]

23 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

Actually, no...it's not about questioning him.  It's about people here stating their opinions as fact and calling for coaches to be fired.  It's pure stupidity and it's what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

For every swing pass that didn't make positive yardage...I guarantee you we had plenty that have positive yardage.  I remember the 75 yarder to Washington vs Colorado.  Plenty of others to Wandale and JD have netted plenty of yards this year.

 

What you've done is create a narrative that all our swing passes are bad because you don't like the results from Iowa.  That's it.  And it's a piss poor argument NOT based on facts.

 

 

I argue for patience.  Not having it is what got us into this mess.  Let Frost recruit and develop.

 

Here's the challenge with this argument (mind you, I'm only referring to the Iowa games the last 5 years in my response):

 

The poster talking about the swing passes is analyzing what he/she is seeing on the TV like everyone else.

Opposing coaches have the benefit of film sent to them by the opposing team prior to a game.

Coaches are meticulous about film study, and they look weeks ahead at a team they are going to face in the future.  They look for tendencies, habits, plays that an opposing staff runs in certain situations.

 

So, let's talk about Kirk Ferentz, Iowa's head man.

 

How did he get his coaching start?  He was Fry's OC at Iowa, then went 12-21 at Maine.  After Maine, he made probably his best coaching decision.

 

He was hired by Bill Belichick.

 

One thing some guy who has known Belichick for over 30 years said was, "The worst 4 years of my life."

Another thing that same guy said about Belichick was, “Everybody knows who Bill Belichick is, right?  I worked four years for the guy and the guy is great, organized, but I will tell you one thing he does: He defines what everybody in the organization is supposed to do.”

 

That guy is the gold standard for NCAA football coaching success right now. 

 

Why all this? It talks about how detail oriented Bill Belichick is, and the level of detail he demanded from all of his staff.  Most of that staff from his 90s Cleveland teams have gone on to some success afterwards.

 

Pat Hill - Fresno State HC for 15 seasons, 1 conference championship.

Bill O'Brien - Current Texans head coach, 3 divisional titles, 3 playoff appearances

Mike Vrabel - Current Tennessee head coach, year 2, almost made playoffs last year (missed it by THAT much)

And of course, Kirk Ferentz, Current Iowa Head man, longest tenured coach in the conference, two conference titles, one divisional title, been bowling 17 of the 20 years he's been the head man there.

 

You see, Ferentz has high praise from arguably one of (if not the greatest) head coach in professional football history:

 

https://saturdaytradition.com/iowa-football/bill-belichick-has-major-praise-for-iowas-kirk-ferentz/

 

“He’s the winningest coach in the history of Iowa football,” Belichick said, according to The Daily Iowan. “He’s the longest-tenured FBS coach at one school in football. He’s coached at every level very successfully, so I think his resumé speaks for itself. He’s a tremendous person; I learned a lot from him in the three years that he coached for me at the Browns.”

 

Don't think that doesn't go both ways:  https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2019/03/29/relationship-between-belichick-ferentz-will-play-sizable-role-in-whether-patriots-pursue-hockenson/

 

“What I find interesting here is the relationship between Kirk and Bill and Brian and Bill,” said DiNardo. “Not only their relationship as coaches, but as friends. I can tell you that there are a lot of similarities between what the Patriots are doing and what Iowa is doing.”

 

This includes FILM STUDY.

 

What does this have to do with last week's game?  Or games prior?

 

Well, all you have to do is look at what Purdue's David Bell said about film study against this staff.  It was film study that let them know that they were going to be able to run the reverse that they ran.

 

Now, if Jeff Brohm studied film prior to that game....what do you think Kirk Ferentz...a guy who served under one of (and with two of) the greatest head coaches of all time...would do prior to a game that he plays on almost the same day every year for the last 10 years is going to do?

 

Study film.

 

It was quite obvious (yes, even to Matt Millen, who knows a thing or two about film study as well as a four time SB champion, two time all pro, and former All-American) what was happening on those swing passes.  Nebraska runs a ton of them in a game.  Seems to be the go to play for this offense.

 

No Tunnel Screens.

No Slants.

A ton of different formations run, but no diversity in the offensive play calling.  A few bad reads from a struggling QB, and you're in trouble.

 

News Flash - that doesn't work anymore in the 21st Century.

 

Frosty is at his best when he is being imaginative.  Like the McCaffery TD play.  Or, like when he had Wandale, Luke, and Martinez on the field all at the same time.  Be creative.

 

Throwing the same out route (bubble zone read) a dozen times a game is gonna get you beat, especially when you are only getting a couple yards on each play at best.  It puts you behind the chains from jump.

 

An Oregon site talking about the Bubble Zone read:  https://fishduck.com/2013/06/take-and-give-oregons-bubble-zone-read-philosophy/

 

Bair down was run against Maryland (think Allen's long gain):  https://fishduck.com/2014/10/oregon-defeats-ucla-with-the-bair-down-strategy/

 

And here's some talk about the current scheme run in Lincoln:  http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2018/09/inside-playbook-nebraska-football-insert-iso-bubble-slant-rpo.html

[cornheadnation]

On 11/30/2019 at 10:36 AM, Jason Sitoke said:

I think this is where a lot of people are.  A lot of us aren’t calling for staff terminations...nor are we saying ‘next year or else’ or ‘2021 or else’.

 

My frustration is with what we can see and measure.  I am honestly at a loss when I hear some of the rationalizations surface on this board....which are almost always conveniently based on nebulous, intangible factors. Things like ‘buy-in’, ‘culture’, and ‘a few plays away’. 

 

I am disappointed with the team and coaching staff so far. Maybe the team was worse off than we thought when the staff arrived, but perhaps the staff was not as great as we thought when they arrived as well. I’m hoping they grow as coaches and I think they should get a long leash. 

 

A long leash does not mean they shouldn’t be held accountable for what we see on the field during the process.

This is a good take, I think our staff will get to where we thought they would be when they arrived.