An Interesting Take on Husker Progress

[Huckleberry Muhammad]

Local sports hack Steve Sipple received a query from a UNL professor the other day:  "How is Nebraska now better than in 2017 under Riley?" 

 

The question made Sipple very mad.  "Do people seriously forget what happened in Mike Riley's final season here?  Do people forget Nebraska dropped six of it's last seven games in 2017, the losses by an average of 26.2 points?  That team flat-out quit.  Players have admitted it.  If you don't see progress in Frost's program compared to the end of Riley's tenure, you're actively trying to avoid seeing it."

 

There's nothing untrue about Sipple's take on the changes he sees, but I see it differently and I can't bring myself to try to do anything other than see something better now.  I think he's talking about something we all saw back then and discussed it ad infinitum;   Riley truly lost the team.  But I can think back to those discussions being about Pelini, and I even recall on-air remarks by game callers on network TV during one game that Callahan "has seemed to have lost them." 

 

Frost talks about wanting everyone on board.  Good basic coaching principle.  Sipple seems to see a vast difference in that regard.  I see it too, but what I'm wondering is if that one particular fact, having the team with you and on board, is really enough to succeed if the coach himself is deficient, limited, not up to Big Ten football.  I keep accusing Frost of not being good enough himself.  He keeps accusing (some) players of not being "with us," "on board," etc, after the (many) losses. 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm still totally on board with Frost being the right guy and a good enough coach to be very successful in the Big Ten.  The bolded sentence in your post is cringe worthy.  I think it's more of the type of personality some people are.  Some people are just negative people.  When things aren't where we would like them to be, they jump to the easiest answer.  COACH SUCKS.  They do this without digging deeper and realizing that every situation is different.  Yes, there are coaches who turn a program around the first year or two.  Some take longer though.  Many times, that "longer" is caused by players within the team either not having the athleticism needed or just not good football players.....or wrong attitude.

 

Frost will get his time here to prove what he can do.  Every step of the way, when something bad happens, you will hear some fans saying "COACH SUCKS".  In there mind, some how that's "holding the coach accountable".  I've never understood it.  I, as a fan, am not the coach's boss.  I'm not the one giving him performance reviews.  Part of it probably is that I deal with personnel issues every day.  I really have  no desire to act like someone else's boss for my entertainment.

 

To each their own though.  Reality is, we as fans get to sit back and watch.  

[alexhortdog95]

I know firing coaches isn't a popular thing for some around here.  Trust me, I know.  And believe me, I really don't like saying a guy should get fired.  But a guy SHOULD get opportunities to get better.  Sometime a more sage eye is needed to help someone younger along.

 

This is my plug for bringing in former USF head coach Charlie Strong as co-defensive coordinator.

 

Why?  Let's check all the boxes:

• Players love him?  Check:  https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/2016/11/26/longhorn-players-react-to-charlie-strong-s-firing/
• Disciplinarian who expects the best on and off the field?  Check:  https://www.wtsp.com/article/sports/college/report-usf-coach-charlie-strong-expected-to-dismiss-11-suspended-players-four-assistants/67-65590ef4-755e-4a3d-bcff-5d23ca7d2c4c
• Hated by Texas?  Check:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/11/20/13132468/charlie-strong-fired-texas-coach
• Highly regarded by Hall of Fame National Champion head coaches?  Check: 
  • Lou Holtz: https://www.burntorangenation.com/football/2016/8/31/12715556/lou-holtz-texas-longhorns-football-accountability
  • Urban Meyer: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/sports/ncaafootball/10quad.html
• People recognize that he can coach defense like a boss:  https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-fans-take-twitter-speculate-charlie-strongs-future/
• WE'VE MADE THIS MISTAKE BEFORE:  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/2014/12/4/7337241/coach-orgeron-very-interested-in-nebraska-coaching-position

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS.....

 

[Huckleberry Muhammad]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Some people are just negative people.  When things aren't where we would like them to be, they jump to the easiest answer.  COACH SUCKS.  They do this without digging deeper and realizing that every situation is different.

 

Well, some of us have looked back at Scott Frost's career;  the whole thing.  All of it, from the little high school all the way to now.  Some of us see all that and lose confidence in him and feel that perhaps The Peter Principle applies here (he may have done well here and there, but he might be proving that he's been promoted beyond his competence). 

 

Time will tell.  I had my hopes for a bit, then just started thinking back to his history.  I still hope he begins to surround himself with people he can learn from and perhaps at some point bring Nebraska around to being at least relevant.

[Nebfanatic]

19 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

I know firing coaches isn't a popular thing for some around here.  Trust me, I know.  And believe me, I really don't like saying a guy should get fired.  But a guy SHOULD get opportunities to get better.  Sometime a more sage eye is needed to help someone younger along.

 

This is my plug for bringing in former USF head coach Charlie Strong as co-defensive coordinator.

 

It's less that and more it's not gonna happen this year so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as if it is the make or break point for this program.

[TGHusker]

18 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

I know firing coaches isn't a popular thing for some around here.  Trust me, I know.  And believe me, I really don't like saying a guy should get fired.  But a guy SHOULD get opportunities to get better.  Sometime a more sage eye is needed to help someone younger along.

 

This is my plug for bringing in former USF head coach Charlie Strong as co-defensive coordinator.

 

Why?  Let's check all the boxes:

• Players love him?  Check:  https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/2016/11/26/longhorn-players-react-to-charlie-strong-s-firing/
• Disciplinarian who expects the best on and off the field?  Check:  https://www.wtsp.com/article/sports/college/report-usf-coach-charlie-strong-expected-to-dismiss-11-suspended-players-four-assistants/67-65590ef4-755e-4a3d-bcff-5d23ca7d2c4c
• Hated by Texas?  Check:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/11/20/13132468/charlie-strong-fired-texas-coach
• Highly regarded by Hall of Fame National Champion head coaches?  Check: 
  • Lou Holtz: https://www.burntorangenation.com/football/2016/8/31/12715556/lou-holtz-texas-longhorns-football-accountability
  • Urban Meyer: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/sports/ncaafootball/10quad.html
• People recognize that he can coach defense like a boss:  https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-fans-take-twitter-speculate-charlie-strongs-future/
• WE'VE MADE THIS MISTAKE BEFORE:  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/2014/12/4/7337241/coach-orgeron-very-interested-in-nebraska-coaching-position

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS.....

 

I would be happy to see Strong here as DC not just co-DC.  I'm still not sold on the 3-4.  We had it under MR and now SF. 

[Nebfanatic]

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

 

Well, some of us have looked back at Scott Frost's career;  the whole thing.  All of it, from the little high school all the way to now.  Some of us see all that and lose confidence in him and feel that perhaps The Peter Principle applies here (he may have done well here and there, but he might be proving that he's been promoted beyond his competence). 

 

Time will tell.  I had my hopes for a bit, then just started thinking back to his history.  I still hope he begins to surround himself with people he can learn from and perhaps at some point bring Nebraska around to being at least relevant.

Enlighten us on Frosts history that shows he probably isn't a good coach? Because that isn't what I see when I look at his coaching career. I see a coach who has been a part of success everywhere he has been

[alexhortdog95]

Just now, Nebfanatic said:

It's less that and more it's not gonna happen this year so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as if it is the make or break point for this program.

 

No disrespect, but every time I post something in a topic that makes a ton of sense, you seem to always come around to shoot it down.  What good reason would you have for not making a step like this?  What are the valid reasons why you wouldn't make this step (other than your usual "you must not be bought in with Frost if you think he should fire coaches"?

 

Yes, the offense has had issues all season long.  However, I'm more willing to give the offense a bit of a pass because scheming offense is much more complicated than the read and react nature of a defense (having coached on both sides of the ball myself).

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, alexhortdog95 said:

 

No disrespect, but every time I post something in a topic that makes a ton of sense, you seem to always come around to shoot it down.  What good reason would you have for not making a step like this?  What are the valid reasons why you wouldn't make this step (other than your usual "you must not be bought in with Frost if you think he should fire coaches"?

 

Yes, the offense has had issues all season long.  However, I'm more willing to give the offense a bit of a pass because scheming offense is much more complicated than the read and react nature of a defense (having coached on both sides of the ball myself).

First of all, we would never bring in Strong as a Co DC because he isn't a 3-4 guy. Off the bat that doesn't make sense. We would need to fire Chinander and change schemes again. This isn't my opinion, I'm just telling you what is actually going to happen and that is Erik Chinander will be our DC next year. It doesn't matter how you or I or anyone else except the people in charge feel about it. I'm not saying we should have blind faith in them, I'm just telling you what they are going to do. Frost wanted time for his staff, Chinander has improved the defense. At this point firing Chinander isn't an option. Again that is less my opinion and more just the reality of the situation. If you want to keep playing in make believe land thinking Chindander is going to get fired or demoted you can go ahead but you are going to be severely disappointed next season when Chins is our lone DC.

[Huskers93-97]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

  Do people forget Nebraska dropped six of it's last seven games in 2017,

Now our games were more competitive. But that is not much different than dropping 5 of your last 6 this year. 

 

Our record the last 2 seasons is actually very odd. 

 

0-6 to start then finish 4-2

4-2 to start then finish 1-5. 

[TheSker]

42 minutes ago, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

 

Well, some of us have looked back at Scott Frost's career;  the whole thing.  All of it, from the little high school all the way to now.  Some of us see all that and lose confidence in him and feel that perhaps The Peter Principle applies here (he may have done well here and there, but he might be proving that he's been promoted beyond his competence). 

 

Time will tell.  I had my hopes for a bit, then just started thinking back to his history.  I still hope he begins to surround himself with people he can learn from and perhaps at some point bring Nebraska around to being at least relevant.

Frost has surrounded himself with, played for and been mentored by some of the very best names in football.

[alexhortdog95]

20 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

First of all, we would never bring in Strong as a Co DC because he isn't a 3-4 guy. Off the bat that doesn't make sense. We would need to fire Chinander and change schemes again. This isn't my opinion, I'm just telling you what is actually going to happen and that is Erik Chinander will be our DC next year. It doesn't matter how you or I or anyone else except the people in charge feel about it. I'm not saying we should have blind faith in them, I'm just telling you what they are going to do. Frost wanted time for his staff, Chinander has improved the defense. At this point firing Chinander isn't an option. Again that is less my opinion and more just the reality of the situation. If you want to keep playing in make believe land thinking Chindander is going to get fired or demoted you can go ahead but you are going to be severely disappointed next season when Chins is our lone DC.

 

Again, you're not giving me a reason other than "I believe."  Base the argument in some fact.

 

Facts:

• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses on third down in the country this year, ranked 76th in the country.
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses stopping the run this year, ranked 95th in the country.
• Nebraska was average at best getting to the quarterback this year with only 27 sacks, tied for 57th in the country. 
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses in the Red Zone this year, tied (ironically) with Minnesota, Indiana at 122nd in the country.

Opinion:

• "First of all, we would never bring in Strong as a Co DC because he isn't a 3-4 guy":  Bruh, do you even watch football?  Charlie Strong coached under Bob Davie, who employed the 3-4 defense over most of his coaching career.  Sure as hell can bet he knows more about the 3-4 than ANYBODY on this current staff.  And why would running 3-4 vs a 3-3-5 or a 4-3 make a hiring difference?!?
• "Chinander has improved the defense":  The statistics above I quoted attributed say otherwise.
• "I'm just telling you what is going to happen and that is Erik Chinander will be our DC next year":  I'm not saying it isn't going to happen, but if I flipped a coin right now, and said "heads," and it landed on heads, that makes me right, correct?  What fact are you basing this off of, other than your opinion?
• "At this point firing Chinander isn't an option":  Why isn't that an option?  Does Chin have illicit photos of Frosty or something?

Where are your FACTS, man?

 

EDIT:  Just in case you think I'm BULLjiving you about Strong + 3-4 Defense:

 

https://grantland.com/features/an-excerpt-essential-smart-football-birth-3-3-5-defense/

 

Strong came to South Bend as a position coach under Holtz, but he also coached under Bob Davie, who was the Irish’s defensive coordinator and, after Holtz’s departure, their head coach. Although no one will confuse Davie with Bear Bryant or Paul Brown on a list of coaching legends, he did coach some great defenses. Unfortunately for him, many were before he became Notre Dame’s head coach. Strong learned a number of lessons from Davie’s disruptive 3-4, and he adapted them to his 3-3-5 at South Carolina. For Strong, the 3-3-5 was just Bob Davie’s disrupting 3-4 mixed with some of the newest and best of the NFL’s defenses — essentially an all-the-time nickel package. The defense was designed for a team that didn’t have the personnel to use an extra defensive lineman and would benefit from stacking its linebackers in order to protect them from potential blockers.

 

Seems like he knows a hell of a lot about coaching the 3-4 to me...

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, alexhortdog95 said:

 

Again, you're not giving me a reason other than "I believe."  Base the argument in some fact.

 

Facts:

• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses on third down in the country this year, ranked 76th in the country.
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses stopping the run this year, ranked 95th in the country.
• Nebraska was average at best getting to the quarterback this year with only 27 sacks, tied for 57th in the country. 
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses in the Red Zone this year, tied (ironically) with Minnesota, Indiana at 122nd in the country.

Opinion:

• "First of all, we would never bring in Strong as a Co DC because he isn't a 3-4 guy":  Bruh, do you even watch football?  Charlie Strong coached under Bob Davie, who employed the 3-4 defense over most of his coaching career.  Sure as hell can bet he knows more about the 3-4 than ANYBODY on this current staff.  And why would running 3-4 vs a 3-3-5 or a 4-3 make a hiring difference?!?
• "Chinander has improved the defense":  The statistics above I quoted attributed say otherwise.
• "I'm just telling you what is going to happen and that is Erik Chinander will be our DC next year":  I'm not saying it isn't going to happen, but if I flipped a coin right now, and said "heads," and it landed on heads, that makes me right, correct?  What fact are you basing this off of, other than your opinion?
• "At this point firing Chinander isn't an option":  Why isn't that an option?  Does Chin have illicit photos of Frosty or something?

Where are your FACTS, man?

 

How do those numbers compare to last year? And the year before? 33.3 ppg allowed last year 27.8 this year

Total defense we went from the 90s to the 50s

 

Whatever bro. You act like I'm telling you the aliens are coming tomorrow. I don't have any more facts then you I suppose but based on Frosts comments the entire time he has been here I highly doubt we see staff turnover after this season. I honestly don't care 1 way or the other it's just pretty obvious at this point in time. But like I said in my last post, if you want to live in make believe land and think Chinander is getting demoted go right ahead. It's not going to change the outcome

[Nebfanatic]

8 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

 

Again, you're not giving me a reason other than "I believe."  Base the argument in some fact.

 

Facts:

• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses on third down in the country this year, ranked 76th in the country. the stats I found show we allowed 40% conversion rate this year compared to 43% last year. Improvement 
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses stopping the run this year, ranked 95th in the country. last year allowed 200 ypg this year 188 ypg. Improvement 
• Nebraska was average at best getting to the quarterback this year with only 27 sacks, tied for 57th in the country. 23 sacks last year. That's an improvement of 4 sacks
• Nebraska was one of the worst defenses in the Red Zone this year, tied (ironically) with Minnesota, Indiana at 122nd in the country. only stat we didn't improve on, but we allowed less points overall so does it really matter

 

How is that not improving the defense? Based on your own facts

[Nebfanatic]

Hey @alexhortdog95 I'd love to see an example of a DC getting fired or demoted after making the defense better in year 2 of his tenure. I don't think one exists.