An Interesting Take on Husker Progress

[junior4949]

5 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

 

And what are the obvious reasons.  That's what I keep asking, and I'm not getting an answer to that.

P.S. - Nebfanatic responded to my post, not the other way around.

 

For the record, I think you have a great idea.  If memory serves me correctly, Strong is one heck of a recruiter as well.  However, there are obvious reasons why this will not happen this year.  For one, Frost is all in on Chinander.  Unless he's directed to, he will not be hiring a co-dcoordinator this year.  He will not be directed to because he was told he'd have ample time to build this thing back up.   

[BoNeyard]

The difference between Riley and Frost, is Riley had his worse season after 2 years of being the head coach. Riley had a rebuilding first year, solid second year, awful third. He was trending downward after being at Nebraska for three years. Add to it Riley had a historical career of being mediocre. 

 

Frost is still rebuilding what has been left over.

[Undone]

3 hours ago, alexhortdog95 said:

What good reason would you have for not making a step like this?  What are the valid reasons why you wouldn't make this step (other than your usual "you must not be bought in with Frost if you think he should fire coaches"?

 

After four seasons, Osborne obviously knew that Cosgrove wasn't going to get it done. And he knew Callahan wasn't going to fire him. So there's some precedent there I think with that four year mark.

 

If we trend down from here and are a complete train wreck on defense over the course of the next two seasons, it would be reasonable to fire Chinander. But it isn't reasonable after year two because it gives off the impression that there's complete chaos in the program, and in my opinion there isn't complete chaos at all.

 

It's more of a function of Chinander being a young coach and needing to adjust. Which I think if Frost leans on him this offseason can and most likely will happen.

 

So with that said, it just isn't reasonable to fire the guy after two years.

[Roundball Shaman]

BigRedBuster: “Frost will get his time here to prove what he can do. Every step of the way, when something bad happens, you will hear some fans saying "COACH SUCKS"... I, as a fan, am not the coach's boss. I'm not the one giving him performance reviews.”

Fans may not be signing the coach’s checks, but ultimately big-time sports is just for the fans (the revenue). Players can’t be trusted to review their own performance or that of the coach, and fans can’t help but judge the coaches at least for their own enjoyment. And when fans do revolt against a coach, the check-writers have little choice but to cut the guy loose.

As for Coach Frost - or any coach - what players and fans want to see is some growth and development of the coach himself. No one comes in as a finished product and much is learned in the school of hard knocks. Maybe a coach has to act in front of his players like he has all the answers, but within himself he knows he doesn’t. Nobody dealing with human beings and many moving parts ever has all the answers.

A coach may have a team lacking in size or talent, but that doesn’t in any way affect his ability to develop a true family-of-brothers feeling within the team. Do the Huskers have that right now? He needs to be able to inspire the team to bring out the best in themselves. Did we really the best this group of players has to offer? He needs to get them to think straight so they stop making so many mistakes. Another improvement-box that needs still to be checked.

Coach Frost can do these things. He can grow AS a coach. Any coach can, and the smart ones have and do. It’s been frustratingly slow over two years to see evidence of this. Once Husker Nation sees a little bit more of this from him, a lot of the fan unrest will disappear.

[alexhortdog95]

3 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

After four seasons, Osborne obviously knew that Cosgrove wasn't going to get it done. And he knew Callahan wasn't going to fire him. So there's some precedent there I think with that four year mark.

 

If we trend down from here and are a complete train wreck on defense over the course of the next two seasons, it would be reasonable to fire Chinander. But it isn't reasonable after year two because it gives off the impression that there's complete chaos in the program, and in my opinion there isn't complete chaos at all.

 

It's more of a function of Chinander being a young coach and needing to adjust. Which I think if Frost leans on him this offseason can and most likely will happen.

 

So with that said, it just isn't reasonable to fire the guy after two years.

 

Agreed.  I've been on record before with the "Fire this dude," as I've never been enamored with his Defense.  I've softened that view somewhat, which is why I took the approach of bringing in a co-defensive coordinator (like a proven Defensive commodity like Strong).

 

For example - Herm Edwards brought in Marvin Lewis, and is considering bringing in Hue Jackson (head scratcher on that one, but I can see the logic in it, though).

 

[Undone]

9 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

I've softened that view somewhat, which is why I took the approach of bringing in a co-defensive coordinator (like a proven Defensive commodity like Strong).

 

For example - Herm Edwards brought in Marvin Lewis, and is considering bringing in Hue Jackson (head scratcher on that one, but I can see the logic in it, though).

 

There are probably good arguments to say that this could improve things. It's just that it isn't Frost's style at all, so it won't ever happen. 

 

People probably tend to criticize ideas on here based purely on whether it's something our head coach would actually carry out...as opposed to examining the idea itself. Know what I mean?

[alexhortdog95]

5 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

There are probably good arguments to say that this could improve things. It's just that it isn't Frost's style at all, so it won't ever happen. 

 

People probably tend to criticize ideas on here based purely on whether it's something our head coach would actually carry out...as opposed to examining the idea itself. Know what I mean?

 

Does a guy who has only been a head coach 4 years have a "style" yet?  Just askin....

[Undone]

4 minutes ago, alexhortdog95 said:

 

Does a guy who has only been a head coach 4 years have a "style" yet?  Just askin....

 

Fair point. I can change my phrasing then to "it is my opinion of what Frost's style probably is to say..."

[southernoregonhusker]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry Muhammad said:

Local sports hack Steve Sipple received a query from a UNL professor the other day:  "How is Nebraska now better than in 2017 under Riley?" 

 

The question made Sipple very mad.  "Do people seriously forget what happened in Mike Riley's final season here?  Do people forget Nebraska dropped six of it's last seven games in 2017, the losses by an average of 26.2 points?  That team flat-out quit.  Players have admitted it.  If you don't see progress in Frost's program compared to the end of Riley's tenure, you're actively trying to avoid seeing it."

 

There's nothing untrue about Sipple's take on the changes he sees, but I see it differently and I can't bring myself to try to do anything other than see something better now.  I think he's talking about something we all saw back then and discussed it ad infinitum;   Riley truly lost the team.  But I can think back to those discussions being about Pelini, and I even recall on-air remarks by game callers on network TV that Callahan "has seemed to have lost them." 

 

Frost talks about wanting everyone on board.  Good basic coaching principle.  Sipple seems to see a vast difference in that regard.  I see it too, but what I'm wondering is if that one particular fact, having the team with you and on board, is really enough to succeed if the coach himself is deficient, limited, not up to Big Ten football.  I keep accusing Frost of not being good enough himself.  He keeps accusing (some) players of not being "with us," "on board," etc, after the (many) losses. 

Sipple was all in on Riley, too, until it became obvious that he was going to be fired.  Journalists do that because they need the coaches for news/quotes.  Sipple will be all in on Frost until the end becomes obvious.  Then you'll see the flip flop.  

[Huckleberry Muhammad]

2 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

Sipple was all in on Riley, too, until it became obvious that he was going to be fired.  Journalists do that because they need the coaches for news/quotes.  Sipple will be all in on Frost until the end becomes obvious.  Then you'll see the flip flop.  

 

Makes sense. 

[Hayseed]

13 hours ago, TGHusker said:

I would be happy to see Strong here as DC not just co-DC.  I'm still not sold on the 3-4.  We had it under MR and now SF. 

Yeah, I think if this were to happen you wouldn’t bring in the pro to babysit Chinander. Chinander would be demoted or fired.

i don’t see that happening right now.

[southernoregonhusker]

12 hours ago, BoNeyard said:

The difference between Riley and Frost, is Riley had his worse season after 2 years of being the head coach. Riley had a rebuilding first year, solid second year, awful third. He was trending downward after being at Nebraska for three years. Add to it Riley had a historical career of being mediocre. 

 

Frost is still rebuilding what has been left over.

I don't think that's fair.  He had Diaco forced on him.  As for being mediocre, he won a lot of games in a program that was traditionally awful, and a program that hasn't gone to a bowl since he left.  

[The Dude]

Progress from a team that totally gave up because they knew their coach was going to be fired?  I mean, I guess.  It's not like that specific situation was ever going to have anything to do with the 2019 team.  There's barely any of the same starters left over.

 

We still couldn't beat 1 team with a winning record 2 years (!) into Frost's era, so any progress Sipple is detecting is a mistake on his part.  Sipple has always been a bit simple.

[Huckleberry Muhammad]

7 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

I don't think that's fair.  He had Diaco forced on him.  As for being mediocre, he won a lot of games in a program that was traditionally awful, and a program that hasn't gone to a bowl since he left.  

 

But he was in over his head here.  I think we're talking about Nebraska's uniqueness when we talk about coaches failing here.  There has to be an understanding, one that is deep.  Somehow Bob Devaney tapped into that and T.O. segued nicely (after a bit of angst and him even thinking about coaching at Colorado).  Next stop:  Solich.  He left too soon, I guess.  I'm still confused about that episode.

 

 

[junior4949]

Karma is a female dog.  At least we are in good company with Michigan, Tennessee, and Miami.  One really does have to wonder how many years or decades a program must suffer for doing one so wrong?  I'm thinking 20 years, so we are getting closer to getting out of the hole.