Meet the Bag Men

[Minnesota_husker]

5 minutes ago, teachercd said:

It might depend on what you consider a bribe...

 

Giving cash

Having the kid have a "great time" on his visits

Getting HS grades bumped up

A new job for mom/dad

A great deal on a new car

Being told he will be "taken care of"

 

I also think we would hear more stories and I also think all the schools cheat in one way or another.  I don't even think it is cheating...

 

Why is a stranger saying "Here kid, this car can be yours if you play here" any different than grandpa going "Here, if you go to State U, I will buy you a car"

Exactly. A duffel bag of 100K isnt being offered to every kid and dont think its being offered right off the bat.

 

I think the NCAA is full of corruption, but I dont think its nearly to the degree some might think.

 

 

[BigPeterJ]

I want to add, that although the percentages are up for debate, i am sure that he isn't as far off as he seems.  I base this off of the fact i know in College Basketball (which is far less money making than top level College football) i know of numerous second hand accounts of recruits being offered money, or parents of recruits being offered jobs.  And that has been in the Missouri Valley Conference, granted at a top level MVC team, and in a couple other schools competing for the same recruit from other conferences.  (Of course my source would not admit if his school also offered, but there has been smoke)....If it hits that level, im sure it hits higher level much more, and high level football even more. 

 

I have no inside info on Nebraska, or any other top level program, but we know it happens at some schools, and probably at schools one would never guess.  It makes you wonder when recruits flip last minute.  Nebraska has lost many this way , including a couple to Louisville, you may remember one or two of those kids (a very highly suspected program of these schemes both in Basketball and football).  At the same time u question Keyshawn Green's "miracle" flip to Nebraska at a position of desperate need.  Again i have no information on that , it may have been nothing illegal.  It just makes me wonder.  

[teachercd]

Agreed, basketball is where it is really bad.  Because a lot of kids have "handlers"

[BigPeterJ]

24 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Agreed, basketball is where it is really bad.  Because a lot of kids have "handlers"

I know basketball much better than football, because i grew up in a basketball family.  The other thing with Basketball is, oftentimes a team can be ONE game-changing player away from going from a bubble team to a top 10-15 team.  Take Wichita State or Creighton for example (typical bubble teams to 8 or 9 seeds).  You add just ONE stud to that team, and all of a sudden you go from a 35ish ranked team to a top 15.    The rumor i heard was about a highly rated recruit that wound up in Wichita back when Creighton was in the MVC.  Creighton was after him also.  Also Louisville and a couple other schools got kids in similar ways supposedly.  My source is from Creighton but at the same time i know the guy is highly biased and Creighton itself has had smoke, and i wouldnt put it past this guy to do the same.  But knowing him well, i know if Creighton did similar that it would be done in a way in which there was no proof.  I dont know anything factual, but my personal opinion is Creighton has done the same with a kid or 2.  Do the Coaches or Admin know? Possibly 1 or the other do, but if they do they will never admit to it, and its not proveable.

 

My takeaway is 3fold-

1-this is a sneaky business, you would be surprised at who does/doesnt engage in this. Some schools you would never suspect probably do, others that you would assume do may not in fact.

2-if it goes on in a mid level basketball league, i imagine its even more profound in football in the top schools, which schools who knows.

3- if my source knew it was going on with kids that wound up in Wichita or Louisville etc, how would he not know if its going on at his own school?  This tells me at least a few people at the schools where this happens know its going on.  Regardless of how they plead ignorance.

[JJ Husker]

45 minutes ago, teachercd said:

It might depend on what you consider a bribe...

 

Giving cash

Having the kid have a "great time" on his visits

Getting HS grades bumped up

A new job for mom/dad

A great deal on a new car

Being told he will be "taken care of"

 

I also think we would hear more stories and I also think all the schools cheat in one way or another.  I don't even think it is cheating...

 

Why is a stranger saying "Here kid, this car can be yours if you play here" any different than grandpa going "Here, if you go to State U, I will buy you a car"

Well some of that IS cheating if compliance with NCAA rules means anything to you.

 

Giving cash- cheating

Great time on visit- depends

HS grades bumped up- probably cheating

New job for relatives or deal on a new car- probably cheating if it's quid pro quo for signing/playing.

Being told he'll be taken care of- Not cheating....until he is actually "taken care of".

 

As the rules are now, there is a pretty big difference between grandpa giving a car or some random booster. Sure, at the end of the day the kid gets a car for going to a certain school but I don't think it's too hard to differentiate the 2 or why 1 should not be allowed.

 

[teachercd]

5 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

Well some of that IS cheating if compliance with NCAA rules means anything to you.

 

Giving cash- cheating

Great time on visit- depends

HS grades bumped up- probably cheating

New job for relatives or deal on a new car- probably cheating if it's quid pro quo for signing/playing.

Being told he'll be taken care of- Not cheating....until he is actually "taken care of".

 

As the rules are now, there is a pretty big difference between grandpa giving a car or some random booster. Sure, at the end of the day the kid gets a car for going to a certain school but I don't think it's too hard to differentiate the 2 or why 1 should not be allowed.

 

I think it should all be allowed...if someone wants to pay/help a kid out in picking his college that should be their business.

I guess I should say that I don't care if it is done.  

 

[JJ Husker]

1 minute ago, teachercd said:

I think it should all be allowed...if someone wants to pay/help a kid out in picking his college that should be their business.

 

 

I won't debate what should or shouldn't be allowed. But as things are currently, some of those things are clearly cheating and not allowed. Personally, I think opening it up to the extent you are okay with would cause even more undesirable issues with the idea of amateur athletics and being a student athletes. IMO unbridled greed is already being covered by pro sports. I don't need more of it in college ball.

[teachercd]

Just now, JJ Husker said:

I won't debate what should or shouldn't be allowed. But as things are currently, some of those things are clearly cheating and not allowed. Personally, I think opening it up to the extent you are okay with would cause even more undesirable issues with the idea of amateur athletics and being a student athletes. IMO unbridled greed is already being covered by pro sports. I don't need more of it in college ball.

See, I don't think it would really cause issues.  Most people/fans/boosters are not going to give away their cash to HS kids...

 

Either way, I just want the Huskers to get really good players!

[84HuskerLaw]

I never contended it doesn’t happen a few times here and there but the claim that 100% and 80% is just unbelievable in my view.  The coaches would be so subject to blackmail/extortion and the intro-squad jealousy would reveal it so quickly.   Kids can’t keep quiet and nosy sports journalists would ask too many questions.   Kids with big cash and cars and relatives with cushy jobs or houses etc?

does it happen?   Yes.  But not all over with almost everybody.   

[dubsker]

Thanks to everyone who actually read the material and contributed to the discussion.  Most of you have raised some really great points and I welcome your feedback.

[BigPeterJ]

2 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I never contended it doesn’t happen a few times here and there but the claim that 100% and 80% is just unbelievable in my view.  The coaches would be so subject to blackmail/extortion and the intro-squad jealousy would reveal it so quickly.   Kids can’t keep quiet and nosy sports journalists would ask too many questions.   Kids with big cash and cars and relatives with cushy jobs or houses etc?

does it happen?   Yes.  But not all over with almost everybody.   

This is hard for me to understand also.  What prevents a kid from saying, for ex, "give me another 100,000 or i will report you", and then once he gets that, doing it again?  I guess like the article says its just one mans word against the other? So the bagman could just say he is lying i never gave him anything, the kid is just trying to blackmail me....? 

 

At the same time a kid could take 20G from one guy and say he is going to Miss State for ex, and then tell Ole Miss he is going with them and take 20G from that guy, and then go to Bama for another 20G.  The kid could play the field, and then whats the bagman gonna do?? Report it that he gave thd kid 20G if he promised to go to his school, and the kid broke the promise.  The authorities that be would say thats too bad u gave the kid 20G under the table, legally the kid doesnt have to give it back or go to the school.  All that would do is put the bagman in possible trouble and maybe the school he was trying to get him too.

 

Most people dont have a problem with kids being paid anyhow, but the fact that its unbalanced bothers me.  If Bama is paying 20 players but LSU is only paying 2, it bothers me.  Problem is theres no solution....if we allow players to be paid, "bagmen" can still pay a guy an extra sum on top of what the player legally gets.  In this world, idk if there is a such thing as true amateur sport as long as there is plenty of money to be made.  Maybe college Baseball or Soccer is clean, maybe most women's sports are clean.  I bet there are players who purposefully try to miss a spread or a over/under for a cut from a gambler also.  How easy would it be to say, in basketball Michigan is playing Nebraska, tell the Michigan point guard we need to hit the under 150 point total, ill give you 10G if you succeed (the gambler placed a 50G bet)  the point guard doesnt have to lose the game or even play bad necessarily.  Just slow the pace down.  Focus on defense.  Not fool proof, as his teammates could shoot lights out or the other team could also, but he could move the odds from 50/50 to 80/20.  

[NoLongerN]

3 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I never contended it doesn’t happen a few times here and there but the claim that 100% and 80% is just unbelievable in my view.  The coaches would be so subject to blackmail/extortion and the intro-squad jealousy would reveal it so quickly.   Kids can’t keep quiet and nosy sports journalists would ask too many questions.   Kids with big cash and cars and relatives with cushy jobs or houses etc?

does it happen?   Yes.  But not all over with almost everybody.   

 

A few sentences into the read, you find that this is applied to the $EC ... so your issue of 100% and 80% seems to be applied to ALL teams, which the article does not state ... this is his insight into the $EC.  

If this article is true, an interesting thought is what is happening with Clemson and all their 5* signings.  They seem to be attracting the top recruits by being the best ... not through a bag man.  At least, that is how it feels to me.

 

[dubsker]

32 minutes ago, BigRedN said:

 

A few sentences into the read, you find that this is applied to the $EC ... so your issue of 100% and 80% seems to be applied to ALL teams, which the article does not state ... this is his insight into the $EC.  

If this article is true, an interesting thought is what is happening with Clemson and all their 5* signings.  They seem to be attracting the top recruits by being the best ... not through a bag man.  At least, that is how it feels to me.

 

I don’t know either.   There can be a lot of things happening at once, including Clemson becoming known as a pipeline to the league.

 

There were a lot of allegations from southern fan bases about Nebraska “dropping bags,” so I just wanted to provide some context.   I also wanted to highlight the myriad of ways there are for the local team to encourage a kid to stay home when Nebraska is recruiting in SEC country.   Ways that are impossible to prove, for example, getting grandpa’s tractor fixed.  Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

[Throw Dem Bones]

9 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I never contended it doesn’t happen a few times here and there but the claim that 100% and 80% is just unbelievable in my view.  The coaches would be so subject to blackmail/extortion and the intro-squad jealousy would reveal it so quickly.   Kids can’t keep quiet and nosy sports journalists would ask too many questions.   Kids with big cash and cars and relatives with cushy jobs or houses etc?

does it happen?   Yes.  But not all over with almost everybody.   

So we’re talking 25-35 5 stars each year and overall about 350-400 4 and 5 stars combined.. the fact that someone would think that these top tier kids and their family’s aren’t offered some sort of incentive is insane! 
 

I have ties to Salpointe Catholic in AZ. They pay families and/or offer housing so their kids can commute/ attend the private school. This school has produced many 3-5 star kids including 2020 5star rb bijan Robinson signed to Texas. He was recruited and paid as a middle schooler to attend this HS.

 

So the thought that the top 350 kids nationwide aren’t offered something to play for a big time college program is absolutely insane. Doesn’t mean they all take it but there are 100% cash bribes, job offers to “work” and get paid way above average salary, relocation incentives, donations to family businesses, etc. Bag men doesn’t just mean these kids get bags of cash but the top kids are bribed in some fashion for sure

[84HuskerLaw]

1 hour ago, Throw Dem Bones said:

So we’re talking 25-35 5 stars each year and overall about 350-400 4 and 5 stars combined.. the fact that someone would think that these top tier kids and their family’s aren’t offered some sort of incentive is insane! 
 

I have ties to Salpointe Catholic in AZ. They pay families and/or offer housing so their kids can commute/ attend the private school. This school has produced many 3-5 star kids including 2020 5star rb bijan Robinson signed to Texas. He was recruited and paid as a middle schooler to attend this HS.

 

So the thought that the top 350 kids nationwide aren’t offered something to play for a big time college program is absolutely insane. Doesn’t mean they all take it but there are 100% cash bribes, job offers to “work” and get paid way above average salary, relocation incentives, donations to family businesses, etc. Bag men doesn’t just mean these kids get bags of cash but the top kids are bribed in some fashion for sure

Now your talking high school

recruiting.  That’s totally different as most of that is legal and won’t create a scandal with coach firings etc.  

bagman is bags of cash.   Incentives is all sorts of things some of which may not be against NCAA rules if done creatively enough I suppose.  We’re talking cash and cars etc - direct payment of big money to high school kids to sign Loi to NU and all the other big time schools.   That’s where nearly all the 300 or so go. That just doesn’t happen as you’re suggesting - the chances of being caught are too high.  
You’re saying Scott Frost is paying all these 4 star kids.   I can’t imagine he’d be that stupid.  Any one of them says anything and Frost is fired and probably trying to get Frank Solich to hire him to coach the Bobcats scout team if they have one.