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dubsker

Meet the Bag Men

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Anybody seen "One & Done" on Showtime?   I think thats' a good example of how "influence" happens - it's not always as clear cut as handing over money to the player himself, coming at him/her from another angle is often more impactful, and less likely to be identified as a break in the NCAA rules.

 

And I'd like to see the private academies dug into - I think if there is bad stuff happening it's often at those and the private coaching groups etc.  For instance, I have ZERO doubt at the gentlemen that were "representing" Joseph Lewis and Deommandore Lenoir were dirty.

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I'll go ahead and say it, I believe we're at a point in time where having a bag man, or handler, is just the norm. Whether it is right or wrong is another debate and one that I really don't want to delve into, but if we're to be competitive in the recruiting process we need to be willing to play the game.

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51 minutes ago, HuskerNBigD said:

I'll go ahead and say it, I believe we're at a point in time where having a bag man, or handler, is just the norm. Whether it is right or wrong is another debate and one that I really don't want to delve into, but if we're to be competitive in the recruiting process we need to be willing to play the game.

I dont think recruiting has been our problem.  Despite not winning anything of national significance in 15 years, we consistently pull higher sought after recruits than anyone in our division.  Start winning, and we will get a few more studs.  We already get enough that we should be winning our division half the time.

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1 hour ago, HuskerNBigD said:

I'll go ahead and say it, I believe we're at a point in time where having a bag man, or handler, is just the norm. Whether it is right or wrong is another debate and one that I really don't want to delve into, but if we're to be competitive in the recruiting process we need to be willing to play the game.

No

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9 hours ago, Throw Dem Bones said:


So we’re talking 25-35 5 stars each year and overall about 350-400 4 and 5 stars combined.. the fact that someone would think that these top tier kids and their family’s aren’t offered some sort of incentive is insane! 
 

I have ties to Salpointe Catholic in AZ. They pay families and/or offer housing so their kids can commute/ attend the private school. This school has produced many 3-5 star kids including 2020 5star rb bijan Robinson signed to Texas. He was recruited and paid as a middle schooler to attend this HS.

 

So the thought that the top 350 kids nationwide aren’t offered something to play for a big time college program is absolutely insane. Doesn’t mean they all take it but there are 100% cash bribes, job offers to “work” and get paid way above average salary, relocation incentives, donations to family businesses, etc. Bag men doesn’t just mean these kids get bags of cash but the top kids are bribed in some fashion for sure

 

 

Thank you for actually reading the article and clearly understanding that in the context of the post, bag man is a catch all/umbrella term that doesn't just mean 'bags of cash.'  The article even says that.  Sometimes the kid is so poor that any money at all is a giant red flag and a different touch is required.  

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4 hours ago, BigPeterJ said:

I dont think recruiting has been our problem.  Despite not winning anything of national significance in 15 years, we consistently pull higher sought after recruits than anyone in our division.  Start winning, and we will get a few more studs.  We already get enough that we should be winning our division half the time.

While I don't think we've had issues recruiting for a divisional title, I was thinking a bit more ambitiously (conference and national title contender). I'd agree we have the talent to win the West, just need development and fine-tuning of coaching, both of which are definitely obtainable.

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13 minutes ago, HuskerNBigD said:

While I don't think we've had issues recruiting for a divisional title, I was thinking a bit more ambitiously (conference and national title contender). I'd agree we have the talent to win the West, just need development and fine-tuning of coaching, both of which are definitely obtainable.

I understand where your coming from.  But i think if we were winning on the level of Wisconsin or even Iowa lately, which we should have been doing based on the recruiting ability we already have, we would be recruiting in the 10-20 range instead of the 17-30 range.  Bo wasnt big into recruiting and still got 25ish ranked classes.  Scott has been getting 17-20 ranked classes at a program not making bowl games and is nationally irrelevant at the moment.  If we went 8-4 the last 3 years i bet his classes would have been ranked around 12-15 instead of 17-22. 

 

To your point i guess upping the bagman game could move us even higher, but then we're Ole Miss...

 

Also if this program takes off like Scott thinks it will, and we're all of a sudden a playoff contender and getting top 5-10 classes in the middle of the northern plains, that will attract alot of attention, and eventually we would be caught if we're doing a high level of that kinda stuff

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6 hours ago, BigPeterJ said:

I understand where your coming from.  But i think if we were winning on the level of Wisconsin or even Iowa lately, which we should have been doing based on the recruiting ability we already have, we would be recruiting in the 10-20 range instead of the 17-30 range.  Bo wasnt big into recruiting and still got 25ish ranked classes.  Scott has been getting 17-20 ranked classes at a program not making bowl games and is nationally irrelevant at the moment.  If we went 8-4 the last 3 years i bet his classes would have been ranked around 12-15 instead of 17-22. 

 

To your point i guess upping the bagman game could move us even higher, but then we're Ole Miss...

 

Also if this program takes off like Scott thinks it will, and we're all of a sudden a playoff contender and getting top 5-10 classes in the middle of the northern plains, that will attract alot of attention, and eventually we would be caught if we're doing a high level of that kinda stuff


It is a lot easier to get away with this stuff in places where the talent actually comes from.   Then, it just becomes a matter of taking care of mom and dad.   A job, whatever.    Stuff that’s impossible to prove.

 

Edit:   One of the things I found interesting about the article is that it disputes the notion that players were just opening up envelopes of cash after games at Oklahoma State like was alleged.   That sort of thing is too obvious.   
 

The same Oklahoma State team where it was alleged student “hostesses” were being very, uh, friendly with recruits.

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On 12/27/2019 at 2:26 AM, 84HuskerLaw said:

Now your talking high school

recruiting.  That’s totally different as most of that is legal and won’t create a scandal with coach firings etc.  

bagman is bags of cash.   Incentives is all sorts of things some of which may not be against NCAA rules if done creatively enough I suppose.  We’re talking cash and cars etc - direct payment of big money to high school kids to sign Loi to NU and all the other big time schools.   That’s where nearly all the 300 or so go. That just doesn’t happen as you’re suggesting - the chances of being caught are too high.  
You’re saying Scott Frost is paying all these 4 star kids.   I can’t imagine he’d be that stupid.  Any one of them says anything and Frost is fired and probably trying to get Frank Solich to hire him to coach the Bobcats scout team if they have one.  


If you would have read the article, you would have read that bagmen do more than just hand over bags of money.

On 12/27/2019 at 2:26 AM, 84HuskerLaw said:

Now your talking high school

recruiting.  That’s totally different as most of that is legal and won’t create a scandal with coach firings etc.  

bagman is bags of cash.   Incentives is all sorts of things some of which may not be against NCAA rules if done creatively enough I suppose.  We’re talking cash and cars etc - direct payment of big money to high school kids to sign Loi to NU and all the other big time schools.   That’s where nearly all the 300 or so go. That just doesn’t happen as you’re suggesting - the chances of being caught are too high.  
You’re saying Scott Frost is paying all these 4 star kids.   I can’t imagine he’d be that stupid.  Any one of them says anything and Frost is fired and probably trying to get Frank Solich to hire him to coach the Bobcats scout team if they have one.  


If you would have read the article, you would have read that bagmen do more than just hand over bags of money.

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55 minutes ago, broganreynik said:


If you would have read the article, you would have read that bagmen do more than just hand over bags of money.


If you would have read the article, you would have read that bagmen do more than just hand over bags of money.

Point is - money and cars and other illegal recruiting bribes are the subject.   Big money / comp given by the schools to get recruits - they are saying ALL 5 star and 80% of 4 star guys.  Not just a few in one conference but ALL over. 
 

They are claiming Frost is cheating big time effectively.  I don’t believe it.  

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20 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Point is - money and cars and other illegal recruiting bribes are the subject.   Big money / comp given by the schools to get recruits - they are saying ALL 5 star and 80% of 4 star guys.  Not just a few in one conference but ALL over. 
 

They are claiming Frost is cheating big time effectively.  I don’t believe it.  

 

First of all, the claim was the 4 and 5 stars would all be offered things. I can buy that, doesn't mean every school is offering something. I hope we don't do it, but it wouldn't be much on Frost's radar if we did. It's the kind of thing you don't talk about with the coaches, as the article mentions. If we're talking just offering kids money to come here, I'm sure we don't. If we're talking occasional payments/"gifts", I hope we don't but wouldn't be shocked if we do.

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2 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

First of all, the claim was the 4 and 5 stars would all be offered things. I can buy that, doesn't mean every school is offering something. I hope we don't do it, but it wouldn't be much on Frost's radar if we did. It's the kind of thing you don't talk about with the coaches, as the article mentions. If we're talking just offering kids money to come here, I'm sure we don't. If we're talking occasional payments/"gifts", I hope we don't but wouldn't be shocked if we do.

Again - If Frost is knowingly cheating he will get caught and fired (entire staff along with Moos etal) and such a thing would be nothing short of stupid.   Why risk a great Job and career for some seemingly minimal “gift” or other benefit that is against the rules.  Husker fans will NOT tolerate doing things the wrong way no matter what everybody else may possibly be doing.  And offering improper benefits that are refused by the player is almost worse as the risk of revelation is likely greater.   
These are just my opinions without  any inside knowledge or experience.  But realistic ones as keeping dirty dealings so secret is almost impossible in the information society of today.  

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1 hour ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Again - If Frost is knowingly cheating he will get caught and fired (entire staff along with Moos etal) and such a thing would be nothing short of stupid.   Why risk a great Job and career for some seemingly minimal “gift” or other benefit that is against the rules.  Husker fans will NOT tolerate doing things the wrong way no matter what everybody else may possibly be doing.  And offering improper benefits that are refused by the player is almost worse as the risk of revelation is likely greater.   
These are just my opinions without  any inside knowledge or experience.  But realistic ones as keeping dirty dealings so secret is almost impossible in the information society of today.  

Do you honestly think some of the top teams in the country got to where they are by not offering impermissible benefits?  A lot of them do it every year and most get away with it.  I'd much rather not do it but at the end of the day, if that's what we have to do to even the playing field with the other teams that are, do it.

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I have a very reliable contact that was just outside the top 100 in basketball (3 star guy) and I know his family for a fact received "job" offers and other things to get him to commit. This is for a 3 star player in basketball.  We already know the shoe companies are funneling top players into blue blood basketball programs for money.  If you don't think that is occurring for high level football, you are crazy.  

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If this happens then it is the responsibility of the player or any other people involved or aware to contact the schools and NCAA to alert them.  Assuming a true violation of rules has happened.  
Just my opinion.  
cheating is cheating no matter what the competition does.   If it’s not against the rules it’s not cheating.    We are talking about cheating.  

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