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Thurston from Pender

Why it will take at least 10 years to become relevant again

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13 hours ago, Scarlet said:

So you're quitting...

Of course not, silly. Just being realistic. I expect the Huskers to have good years, but not necessarily sustained dominant years. That's not quitting... that's expecting to have a pretty good program, one that gets to bowl games most years. That's what Nebraska can be from now on. Sure, there's always hope for greater success (even KU can dream, LOL), but there's no plausible reason to expect it. And what's wrong with being a program that usually goes to a bowl?  It sure beats the past few years. The problem on this board is that consistent 9-win seasons weren't good enough. That's completely irrational. My suggestion is that you stop living in the past. NU is no longer a big dog, especially in a conference that isn't intimidated by a newcomer, and there just aren't likely to be any B1G titles in the foreseeable future. A NC? An even more distant long shot. Unfortunately, these ain't the 90s, and they're simply not coming back.  Enjoy Frost's improvement of the program. Enjoy game day. Enjoy the coming bowl games. And you will, but you've gotta get realistic.

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Outside of NUs program itself, just what has so fundamentally changed that it has become practically impossible for NU football to become what it was for the decades of the 60s, 70s, 80, and 90s?  Forty years of 9 plus win seasons with 5 national championships and a ton of conference and divisional and bowl wins throughout.  
I see nothing that Nebraska is uniquely facing to prevent our return to glory.   It may be “unrealistic” to expect that we can suddenly supplant Bama, Ohio St, and OU, Clemson etc from being elites but rejoin them in the top group is very realistic frankly.  
Nebraska is a top 5 all time program in wins etc.  

Facilities, fans, coaches and the will and confidence is what it takes.  In simple terms, re- build it and they will come!    Many a real dream has come true in Memorial Stadium on that hallowed field turf.  Many more can and will happen for generations to come if the right effort is made.   

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8 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Outside of NUs program itself, just what has so fundamentally changed that it has become practically impossible for NU football to become what it was for the decades of the 60s, 70s, 80, and 90s? 

Easy. Dominant programs in the Southeast; no local recruiting grounds; multiple superior or equivalent programs in the B1G that do have local recruiting grounds (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois); lack of any NU intimidation factor whatsoever in the B1G (as opposed to the old Big 8 and Big 12); poor location on the far western edge of the conference; abandoned ties to Texas recruiting; a 2020 recruiting ranking that is on par with Kentucky, North Carolina and South Carolina;  and a current reputation as a mediocre (at best) program that doesn't go to bowl games regularly and shocks no one when it loses to the likes of Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Northern Illinois, Purdue and Troy. None of that was true in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, and that's "what has so fundamentally changed." Therefore, there's simply no reason to expect anything beyond "pretty good football" from this point forward. Of course, anything can happen in any given year (KU 2007), so there's always hope. Every program has hope.

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2 hours ago, ReddyRed said:

Easy. Dominant programs in the Southeast; no local recruiting grounds; multiple superior or equivalent programs in the B1G that do have local recruiting grounds (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois); lack of any NU intimidation factor whatsoever in the B1G (as opposed to the old Big 8 and Big 12); poor location on the far western edge of the conference; abandoned ties to Texas recruiting; a 2020 recruiting ranking that is on par with Kentucky, North Carolina and South Carolina;  and a current reputation as a mediocre (at best) program that doesn't go to bowl games regularly and shocks no one when it loses to the likes of Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Northern Illinois, Purdue and Troy. None of that was true in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, and that's "what has so fundamentally changed." Therefore, there's simply no reason to expect anything beyond "pretty good football" from this point forward. Of course, anything can happen in any given year (KU 2007), so there's always hope. Every program has hope.

Let's just be glad you're not in a leadership role for this program because with this mindset of quitting we'd have a self fulfilling prophecy on our hands. 

 

I'm sure Frost doesn't see anything you listed as insurmountable or he wouldn't have come here. He knows how special this place is.  It has so much going for it and you've failed to mention any of those things.  Because you're either not a person who tries to overcome hurdles and see only the negatives in a situation or you're an Iowa fan.

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6 hours ago, ReddyRed said:

Easy. Dominant programs in the Southeast; no local recruiting grounds; multiple superior or equivalent programs in the B1G that do have local recruiting grounds (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois); lack of any NU intimidation factor whatsoever in the B1G (as opposed to the old Big 8 and Big 12); poor location on the far western edge of the conference; abandoned ties to Texas recruiting; a 2020 recruiting ranking that is on par with Kentucky, North Carolina and South Carolina;  and a current reputation as a mediocre (at best) program that doesn't go to bowl games regularly and shocks no one when it loses to the likes of Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Northern Illinois, Purdue and Troy. None of that was true in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, and that's "what has so fundamentally changed." Therefore, there's simply no reason to expect anything beyond "pretty good football" from this point forward. Of course, anything can happen in any given year (KU 2007), so there's always hope. Every program has hope.

You made my point.  Basically all those criticisms are NU changes NOT national ones.  
Mostly the elites of the game today are the ones from the past 5 decades OU, MI, PSU, AB, FL, GA, etc. A few like TX, USC, FSU and Miami are struggling right now but they’re still recruiting well and present good teams into the future. 
football talent - geographically speaking - is still pretty much concentrated outside Neb as it always has been.  The things that have changed are mostly internal to Nebraska.   Those are being changed once again - hopefully into a national statute program.  
Nebraska needs to be careful to focus on being the exception and not the rule.  If we try to play the same way and copy the Bamas and Ohio States and Clemsons it might work.  If we try to copy the Nebraska (1962-2002) and focus of us, it will work.   We’ve always done well by mostly being the toughest, most determined, hardest working team.  Neb football at its best has been blue collar - nothing fancy - smash mouth.  The blackshirts.  The trenches.   Hard hits.  Power not finesse.  The power I. The Osbone not the fun n gun.

Yes the game itself has evolved with rules, schemes in favor, fads, uniforms, pads, etc but those are all common to every team.  There were times when the run based “option” schemes were more common and less pass oriented. 
But Husker football can certainly be a top selling - winning formula.  In that sense nothing much BESIDES NU has changed. 
we quit being Nebraska frankly while other programs continued. 
Getting in great physical shape lots of hard work over time.  Staying in that shape is still hard work but it becomes routine and habit and more enjoyable.  

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5 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

You made my point.  Basically all those criticisms are NU changes NOT national ones.  
Mostly the elites of the game today are the ones from the past 5 decades OU, MI, PSU, AB, FL, GA, etc. A few like TX, USC, FSU and Miami are struggling right now but they’re still recruiting well and present good teams into the future. 
football talent - geographically speaking - is still pretty much concentrated outside Neb as it always has been.  The things that have changed are mostly internal to Nebraska.   Those are being changed once again - hopefully into a national statute program.  
Nebraska needs to be careful to focus on being the exception and not the rule.  If we try to play the same way and copy the Bamas and Ohio States and Clemsons it might work.  If we try to copy the Nebraska (1962-2002) and focus of us, it will work.   We’ve always done well by mostly being the toughest, most determined, hardest working team.  Neb football at its best has been blue collar - nothing fancy - smash mouth.  The blackshirts.  The trenches.   Hard hits.  Power not finesse.  The power I. The Osbone not the fun n gun.

Yes the game itself has evolved with rules, schemes in favor, fads, uniforms, pads, etc but those are all common to every team.  There were times when the run based “option” schemes were more common and less pass oriented. 
But Husker football can certainly be a top selling - winning formula.  In that sense nothing much BESIDES NU has changed. 
we quit being Nebraska frankly while other programs continued. 
Getting in great physical shape lots of hard work over time.  Staying in that shape is still hard work but it becomes routine and habit and more enjoyable.  

Yes, and when you realize you have recruiting challenges you use ingenuity.  You zig when they zag.  If you believe you can't recruiting straight up in most situations you recruit a different talent.  Think a guy like Aaron Taylor.  

 

https://www.huskermax.com/interviews/aarontaylor.html

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Some of very best recruiting classes we ever had at NU were from the Callahan era, correct?  Did that equate to anything then, no not really, so why will it automatically equate to anything now?  Callahan gets a lot of grief, mainly due to his loyalty to Cosgrove, but in all honesty, he was the best coach we have had at NU since Osborne and that includes Scotty Frosty.  He recruited like crazy with a staff that knew what they wanted to do, especially on offense.  If he had dumped Cosgrove, he could very well still be here as HC.  

 

We have an uphill climb with a green staff who are still trying to figure out if they should zig or zag.  Ego's aside, the chore is not insurmountable, but we are the little brother of college football not only in our own conference, but in the nation.  A good year for NU going forward would be to finish in the top half of the conference.  That is not giving up, that is reality.

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6 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

Some of very best recruiting classes we ever had at NU were from the Callahan era, correct?  Did that equate to anything then, no not really, so why will it automatically equate to anything now?  Callahan gets a lot of grief, mainly due to his loyalty to Cosgrove, but in all honesty, he was the best coach we have had at NU since Osborne and that includes Scotty Frosty.  He recruited like crazy with a staff that knew what they wanted to do, especially on offense.  If he had dumped Cosgrove, he could very well still be here as HC.  

 

We have an uphill climb with a green staff who are still trying to figure out if they should zig or zag.  Ego's aside, the chore is not insurmountable, but we are the little brother of college football not only in our own conference, but in the nation.  A good year for NU going forward would be to finish in the top half of the conference.  That is not giving up, that is reality.

 

Based on what? He's probably not as bad as some people claim, but in what world is 2 losing seasons out of 4 and one conference title game appearance better than Pelini's track record?

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1 minute ago, Husker in WI said:

 

Based on what? He's probably not as bad as some people claim, but in what world is 2 losing seasons out of 4 and one conference title game appearance better than Pelini's track record?

You make a valid point, but he was not given the time Pelini was either and definitely brought in way more talent to NU if you are hanging your hat on recruiting rankings.

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10 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

Some of very best recruiting classes we ever had at NU were from the Callahan era, correct?  Did that equate to anything then, no not really, so why will it automatically equate to anything now? 

That's not the point.  The case was made that Nebraska could not attract competitive talent.  We can as our recruiting classes have shown (see your example). 

 

What's been holding Nebraska back has not been that nobody wants to play here.  It's been develop and coaching.  I have faith Frost will get that done.  Will we win more natties?  That's up to the football gods but, really, we need to focus on winning the west. 

 

We're actually in a great position because the other schools have nothing on us in this division.  Win the west and you have a puncher's chance.  Win it often enough are your odds increase exponentially.  

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10 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

Some of very best recruiting classes we ever had at NU were from the Callahan era, correct? 

Pretty strong statement when you think about where the program was from the 70s through the 90s.

 

Let's just say some of the best classes since current rating systems have been in place.

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

Pretty strong statement when you think about where the program was from the 70s through the 90s.

 

Let's just say some of the best classes since current rating systems have been in place.

Fair enough.  I was thinking of the era of 2000 to present with my statement, but you are correct.

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30 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

You make a valid point, but he was not given the time Pelini was either and definitely brought in way more talent to NU if you are hanging your hat on recruiting rankings.

Got it. I guess for now I still trust Frost and Co. to develop the talent more than I trusted Callahan, or at least his defensive assistants. I do recognize there's not a ton to back up that view at the moment.

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