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2 minutes ago, Lightfighter214 said:

Im beginning to wonder if anyway that repeats things like "19 year old MEN" ever served or have been in a line unit, or if they just romanticize  their service. The only true thing mentioned about this was that people mature a different rates.

 

The 19 year old MEN in your typical infantry unit have way more problems then football teams, the biggest separator is the fact that the military folks are under contract and the army owns you. You screw up, we are just going to be on cq for 24 hours every Saturday,  and make you sign in every hour on Friday,  all while staying in a guarded barracks. You aren't allowed to screwup. And if you find a way in those circumstances to screw up more,  they just tighten the reigns even more.

 

I think the general public would almost be flabbergasted at what an army brigade soldiers do. The duis, fights, 700 dollar car loans, general destruction of property, and drugs. You just don't hear about it much. Not to mention e-4s riding out their contract that will do some of the most impressive things to avoid simply doing 5 minutes of work.

 

The miltary has more probelms with these "MEN" then the general public or even veterans want to admit to, but they are very real. 

This is interesting!  I can only imagine what the guys are like that are short timers...knowing they are done soon.  

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3 hours ago, Lightfighter214 said:

Im beginning to wonder if anyway that repeats things like "19 year old MEN" ever served or have been in a line unit, or if they just romanticize  their service. The only true thing mentioned about this was that people mature a different rates.

 

The 19 year old MEN in your typical infantry unit have way more problems then football teams, the biggest separator is the fact that the military folks are under contract and the army owns you. You screw up, we are just going to be on cq for 24 hours every Saturday,  and make you sign in every hour on Friday,  all while staying in a guarded barracks. You aren't allowed to screwup. And if you find a way in those circumstances to screw up more,  they just tighten the reigns even more.

 

I think the general public would almost be flabbergasted at what an army brigade soldiers do. The duis, fights, 700 dollar car loans, general destruction of property, and drugs. You just don't hear about it much. Not to mention e-4s riding out their contract that will do some of the most impressive things to avoid simply doing 5 minutes of work.

 

The miltary has more probelms with these "MEN" then the general public or even veterans want to admit to, but they are very real. 

This is 100% correct. 11b reporting in. However, those that chose to make poor choices are punished for it. Barracks restrictions, CQ duty, f#&% f#&% games, smoke sessions, RFS and/or UCMJ. They are held to a standard that was laid out for them. If they fail to meet that standard, they pay the price. It’s called being an adult. I don’t see why we can’t or won’t treat adults in college the same way. 

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11 minutes ago, kozzman555 said:

This is 100% correct. 11b reporting in. However, those that chose to make poor choices are punished for it. Barracks restrictions, CQ duty, f#&% f#&% games, smoke sessions, RFS and/or UCMJ. They are held to a standard that was laid out for them. If they fail to meet that standard, they pay the price. It’s called being an adult. I don’t see why we can’t or won’t treat adults in college the same way. 


Agree 100% 

 

My experience was a little different. We didn’t see that very often from the e-4s or airmen in their first tour. There were a couple screw ups in each squadron of course, but they filtered them out quickly. We had some crazy stuff happen with drugs and things, but nothing any different than a college campus. The guys and gals I served with came from all walks of life. Some literally had no family support (parents only jail, or disowned them, siblings always in trouble or in gangs), but it seemed like those with a rougher upbringing did really well in our unit and adapted better than some of those with a moderately normal upbringing. The right leader and the desire to improve their situation made a huge difference. The ones that fell flat were released within months, so we rarely had to deal with that crap. Most units on our base were the same way. It was also Abilene, TX... so there wasn’t a lot of sh!t to do. 

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23 minutes ago, kozzman555 said:

This is 100% correct. 11b reporting in. However, those that chose to make poor choices are punished for it. Barracks restrictions, CQ duty, f#&% f#&% games, smoke sessions, RFS and/or UCMJ. They are held to a standard that was laid out for them. If they fail to meet that standard, they pay the price. It’s called being an adult. I don’t see why we can’t or won’t treat adults in college the same way. 

 

I learned doing medical coverage for the 82nd's pre-ranger that RIs have some very, very, very creative ways of bringing people in line.  I also learned that word of who will sneak you a wad of chew travels very quickly...

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23 minutes ago, kozzman555 said:

This is 100% correct. 11b reporting in. However, those that chose to make poor choices are punished for it. Barracks restrictions, CQ duty, f#&% f#&% games, smoke sessions, RFS and/or UCMJ. They are held to a standard that was laid out for them. If they fail to meet that standard, they pay the price. It’s called being an adult. I don’t see why we can’t or won’t treat adults in college the same way. 

It would seem to me that Scott is holding them accountable.  But just because you hold people accountable doesn't mean that the entire group automatically falls in line.  There will always be some that push the limits or step over the boundaries laid before them.  Good coaches just handle those issues faster and try to create a culture where some of the team actually begins to hold their peers accountable.  That takes time...  

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32 minutes ago, ZMagers22 said:


Agree 100% 

 

My experience was a little different. We didn’t see that very often from the e-4s or airmen in their first tour. There were a couple screw ups in each squadron of course, but they filtered them out quickly. We had some crazy stuff happen with drugs and things, but nothing any different than a college campus. The guys and gals I served with came from all walks of life. Some literally had no family support (parents only jail, or disowned them, siblings always in trouble or in gangs), but it seemed like those with a rougher upbringing did really well in our unit and adapted better than some of those with a moderately normal upbringing. The right leader and the desire to improve their situation made a huge difference. The ones that fell flat were released within months, so we rarely had to deal with that crap. Most units on our base were the same way. It was also Abilene, TX... so there wasn’t a lot of sh!t to do. 

 

During the early and middling days of the Iraq war, the army was looking for ways to get more bodies, not ways to get rid of them.

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11 hours ago, teachercd said:

I always get a chuckle out of this culture talk and party talk.

 

The awesome 90's teams partied all the time, I saw them out all the time, and they beat each other up all the time (not at practice, but like actual fighting) and they joke about it today.

 

They won because they had awesome players.

They also knew when and how to get to work.  Unfortunately, that hasn’t been true the last 20 yrs.  hard work was optional and our previous three coaches held no one accountable 

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5 minutes ago, N is for nowledge said:

They also knew when and how to get to work.  Unfortunately, that hasn’t been true the last 20 yrs.  hard work was optional and our previous three coaches held no one accountable 

Maybe, sort of???

 

But to think that for 20 years...not one of those teams "worked hard" and all the coaches were lazy asses is probably not totally fair.

 

Most of those players don't get to that level without working hard and most of those coaches don't just "luck into" those jobs  (except Riley, who is a human lotto ticket)

 

I think it is probably fairer to say that it was a combo of less talented players, less amazing coaches, not working as hard at times and some bad breaks.

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11 hours ago, teachercd said:

I always get a chuckle out of this culture talk and party talk.

 

The awesome 90's teams partied all the time, I saw them out all the time, and they beat each other up all the time (not at practice, but like actual fighting) and they joke about it today.

 

They won because they had awesome players.

And they weren’t soft

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7 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Maybe, sort of???

 

But to think that for 20 years...not one of those teams "worked hard" and all the coaches were lazy asses is probably not totally fair.

 

Most of those players don't get to that level without working hard and most of those coaches don't just "luck into" those jobs  (except Riley, who is a human lotto ticket)

 

I think it is probably fairer to say that it was a combo of less talented players, less amazing coaches, not working as hard at times and some bad breaks.

So agree to a point.  MR continues to get shade as he should, but he didn’t exactly inherit a good, or even avg roster, nor a good culture.  Bo created more damage than any of the 3 previous coaches to the program. To be clear I didn’t say all, I said some, but it had a ripple effect through the team.  For every Ameer or Rex, you had an Andrew Rodriguez, chase Rome, or the cotton kid.  Looked like all the lifted was a bud heavy and a burrito.  When your best lineman goes to the combine (gates)and benches 225 less times than I did out I’d HS don’t tell me they were working hard. Just a few examples but the point was they couldn’t or wouldn’t be held accountable because of a lack of depth or want to.  And yes below avg coaches across the board didn’t help

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9 hours ago, Lightfighter214 said:

Im beginning to wonder if anyway that repeats things like "19 year old MEN" ever served or have been in a line unit, or if they just romanticize  their service. The only true thing mentioned about this was that people mature a different rates.

 

The 19 year old MEN in your typical infantry unit have way more problems then football teams, the biggest separator is the fact that the military folks are under contract and the army owns you. You screw up, we are just going to be on cq for 24 hours every Saturday,  and make you sign in every hour on Friday,  all while staying in a guarded barracks. You aren't allowed to screwup. And if you find a way in those circumstances to screw up more,  they just tighten the reigns even more.

 

I think the general public would almost be flabbergasted at what an army brigade soldiers do. The duis, fights, 700 dollar car loans, general destruction of property, and drugs. You just don't hear about it much. Not to mention e-4s riding out their contract that will do some of the most impressive things to avoid simply doing 5 minutes of work.

 

The miltary has more probelms with these "MEN" then the general public or even veterans want to admit to, but they are very real. 

 

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7 hours ago, kozzman555 said:

This is 100% correct. 11b reporting in. However, those that chose to make poor choices are punished for it. Barracks restrictions, CQ duty, f#&% f#&% games, smoke sessions, RFS and/or UCMJ. They are held to a standard that was laid out for them. If they fail to meet that standard, they pay the price. It’s called being an adult. I don’t see why we can’t or won’t treat adults in college the same way. 

I played football in college and bolded rings true for our team. It was NAIA, so not big boy football, but if you stepped out of line the coaches would make your life a living hell. You were expected to know your dictionary sized playbook, you were expected to finish every play, you were expected to be 5 minutes early, or else you were late, you were expected to be at every 5:00 AM work out, you were expected to report to the trainer before practice --- if you didn't do these things you'd be punished.

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I, for one, am glad that society generally has higher expectations for 19 year olds in the military, who deal with issues of life and death, than we do for 19 year olds who are in college and play a friggin game.

 

If you want to increase the age for military service, I'm fine with that but don't act like kids in college should be held to the same standard as those who may give their life in the line of duty. It's apples and oranges no matter how much anyone thinks it should be the same. In fact it's different enough that it doesn't even belong in this discussion. Worst case if a football player somehow screws up is a game is lost. Can you guess what the consequences might be if that same age person makes a similar mistake in the military? 

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