Evaluating where Iowa is

[BigPeterJ]

54 minutes ago, Wayupnorth said:

I guess real results can't be seen. Needing very good coaching, we haven't had that since before Bo left.

Bo's recruiting fell way off the last two years he was here, he stuck with the players,coached them up, but his classes weren't up to needs, roster holes strted to show up.

MR had to convert a TE and D end, had two walkons starting there as well, MR never used the jucos. At LB, we had to start a true frosh. At O line, we had to start several walkons.

Our D tackle and cb positions were solid, Bo left with one qb ready.

 

This isn't an indictment on Bo, or even MR, but it happened. After each coach left, we had higher than normal attrition, that's to be expected, and when SF got here, he got rid of a few highly rated recruits, so, in reality, our recruiting classes weren't what they started out to be.

Continuity cannot go underestimated in value, it allows for development, as older players help the younger guys,leadership forms,expectations and finer details are discovered and practiced etc.

We currently have a coach that's out recruiting our previous staffs, we have 40 freshmen coming in, some of course redshirts, amongst them are 16 four star recruits.

Just be patient, it's coming, besides,iowa by three? That their best at our worst?

Great post. I dont have anything to add to it, i just want to reinforce what you said about our recruiting classes.  After attrition and plenty of busts, our recruiting classes were on par with the worst in the BIG.  That doesn't even take into account that we haven't had a unified direction for what we want to do, so even many of our solid players dont fit this system as well as their rankings.  We truly have lacked the "Dudes" to be a good team.  We have many in our upcoming freshman and sophmore classes....but they will be just freshman and sophmores.  There is quite a difference between an 18 year old.....and a 21 year old with 3 or 4 years of coaching, nutrition, and training.  Its super hard for me, even knowing this, to be patient.  But I believe we need to be patient for 1 more year.  If we even make a bowl next year, the future looks really bright.  Lets try not to destroy our livers before oir redemption comes a callin.

[dubsker]

32 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

They don’t count less. A .8800 lineman counts the same as a .8800 RB in the class rankings. 
 

Many people feel a good lineman means more to the team as a good RB. I sort of agree, but that would be very difficult to adjust for in the rankings. 
 

Also, linemen are much harder to rate out of HS because their bodies tend to need more development and it’s harder to gauge their skill level in camps. So, I believe there are more misses in ranking linemen than skill positions. 
 

Iowa started keying on linemen recruiting and development when Ferentz took over since he is a very good online coach. 
 

personally, I believe Frost has the same idea as to the importance of the line. But, we were amazingly low on numbers and quality of linemen when he got here. Just look at that recruiting now composited to before he got here. 
 

sadly, those positions take more time to develop so the results have suffered so far. 
 

it’s coming though. 

 

This is what I absolutely love about the walkon program and I couldn't agree more.  The staff can project who they think will have the frame and feet to handle the weight, but the fact is Nebraska just needs more opportunities for those potential all americans to pan out.

 

I don't think males are anywhere close to reaching their peak strength for a number of years after high school.

[Wayupnorth]

2 hours ago, BigPeterJ said:

Great post. I dont have anything to add to it, i just want to reinforce what you said about our recruiting classes.  After attrition and plenty of busts, our recruiting classes were on par with the worst in the BIG.  That doesn't even take into account that we haven't had a unified direction for what we want to do, so even many of our solid players dont fit this system as well as their rankings.  We truly have lacked the "Dudes" to be a good team.  We have many in our upcoming freshman and sophmore classes....but they will be just freshman and sophmores.  There is quite a difference between an 18 year old.....and a 21 year old with 3 or 4 years of coaching, nutrition, and training.  Its super hard for me, even knowing this, to be patient.  But I believe we need to be patient for 1 more year.  If we even make a bowl next year, the future looks really bright.  Lets try not to destroy our livers before oir redemption comes a callin.

I'll go a step further. I checked out the all Big Ten teams, 150 guys selected from honoable mention to starters-first teamers at all positions.

Since 2014, we have averaged 6 guys on this team. Doing easy math 14 teams,150 guys, thats almost 11 guys per team on AVG! We've had 6 average since 2014.

 

This goes back to Bo all the way til last years 2019 all Big team, where we had, 6.

Getting guys into the league, you need to at least make third team on the Big team,unfortunatelt, most of our guys were honorable mention, and weren't drafted.

 

Our numbers of higher rated recruits, and since the staffs first true full class, 2019, all have returned. I don't fully credit 2018 as the staffs first full class because of transition.

Like I said, having 40 freshmen or rs freshmen is going to fill the cupboards, the level of athleticism will be raised, so, it comes down to developing them and getting them experience,plus SnC of course.

The future does indeed look bright, even if we have to play 7 top 25 preseason teams this year.

[BigPeterJ]

28 minutes ago, Wayupnorth said:

I'll go a step further. I checked out the all Big Ten teams, 150 guys selected from honoable mention to starters-first teamers at all positions.

Since 2014, we have averaged 6 guys on this team. Doing easy math 14 teams,150 guys, thats almost 11 guys per team on AVG! We've had 6 average since 2014.

 

This goes back to Bo all the way til last years 2019 all Big team, where we had, 6.

Getting guys into the league, you need to at least make third team on the Big team,unfortunatelt, most of our guys were honorable mention, and weren't drafted.

 

Our numbers of higher rated recruits, and since the staffs first true full class, 2019, all have returned. I don't fully credit 2018 as the staffs first full class because of transition.

Like I said, having 40 freshmen or rs freshmen is going to fill the cupboards, the level of athleticism will be raised, so, it comes down to developing them and getting them experience,plus SnC of course.

The future does indeed look bright, even if we have to play 7 top 25 preseason teams this year.

Completely understated fact.  And I was one of the people who thought we had more talent than most of our division, until i really looked into our roster, so im not pointing fingers.  Also agree the 2018 class was like a band aid, and after attrition, really wasn't that great.  Thats why i say we need 1 more year....most our best players either just arrived last year, or are arriving this year.  We are so young.  Even in Frost's 3rd year we will be so young. 

[BigPeterJ]

I am very excited for our future, it is just hard to wait.  Next year, if we can get good QB play we still have a chance to be fairly good.   The one experienced group we have is our OLine, although they are Riley's recruits, so do they fit our system?  If they can , and we get good QB play, our offense should be fairly good.  Our defense will be very young though.  If we make a bowl game i like where this is headed.  

[JJ Husker]

It makes me sad (and angry) that Nebraska fan has stooped to using Iowa as some kind of litmus test or program benchmark. Holy hell, I would've never guessed it would ever be this way 20 years ago.

[Wayupnorth]

14 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

It makes me sad (and angry) that Nebraska fan has stooped to using Iowa as some kind of litmus test or program benchmark. Holy hell, I would've never guessed it would ever be this way 20 years ago.

I'm not comparing them to us, they are only under our teams under Bo, but on the ladder of ascension,we are currently looking up at them, but we are already very close.

 

Theyve been winning their close games and weve been losing ours,including against them.

Weve been outgaining them, and a td on a return, which iowa fans compared how close they were to us when DPE owned them, we kept descending ,they maintained.

We are climbing again, making games close, almost over the hump, but we aren't done either.

It took three coaches and 15 years to run the program down. We've hit bottom,everything is in front of us, no longer behind us imo.

[BigRedBuster]

28 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

It makes me sad (and angry) that Nebraska fan has stooped to using Iowa as some kind of litmus test or program benchmark. Holy hell, I would've never guessed it would ever be this way 20 years ago.

Nobody is comparing them as the ultimate of what we want. But, it’s undeniable that they have had more success than us recently. Anyone who denies that is delusional. 
 

So, to get to their point, is our first stepping stone. 
 

Let’s just hope that stepping stone is crushed under our feet as we step higher. 

[lo country]

Iowa and Wisky have an established identity.  Physical and fundamentally sound.  They have both used this "scheme", "recipe", whatever for years.  And it works.  They recruit kids for the same system they have run for years.  They develop the kids and the results are proof positive it works.  

 

I look at going from Frank to Cally to Bo to MR to Frost and I see a complete schematic shift every few years save the 7 with Bo.  By the time guys are juniors or seniors, they seem to get a new staff and scheme.  That they were not recruited by or for.  That's a recipe for disaster.  And it shows.....Stability has proven to be a good thing for the likes of Wisky and Iowa.  

 

Here is an excerpt from an article with Josh Kalu and what his time at NU looked like:

 

I got there with Coach Bo. I was recruited by coach Joseph, he ended up going to Texas A&M. Then I was with Coach Warren and he was there for a semester. So coming out of high school, I met two different guys in one year and they’re both gone. After that, I had Coach Elliott and he passed away. Then three more coaches. In total, I had six different position coaches, three defensive coordinators, and two different head coaches. All within four years. I put my head down and I worked as hard as I could. I mean, I feel sometimes I could have worked harder. I slacked in some areas as a young guy. Sometimes I feel like I let people down. But, as a young guy with a different mindset, it’s hard with all these things happening to not get in a funk. And if you’re not strong minded, it’s hard to get out of it.

 

I think the bolded tells a lot about kids on this team and what might be going on....

 

 

[84HuskerLaw]

This longevity in staff and even HC is really kmportant to the players as recruits and as team members.  Most guys take a couple years to get settled in to school and living away from the structured home life (assuming they are lucky enough to have a good childhood setting).  Physical and mental development and learning and with those - confidence - come over time. After 2 or 3 years maybe half,,if the program is well oiled and running steady, turn into good college fball players.  Change systems and coaches and schemes and positions etc and about half of those will need another year or more to get upto

their game performxnce potential. 
This is where Nebraska has been since Callahan (or even the last year of Solich after his asst coaching purge).   It doesn’t work.  Give it time - stop pressuring Frost to make big changes in staff on top of big roster change.  Stability and minimal change is what may be needed.  IMO. 

[BigPeterJ]

13 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

This longevity in staff and even HC is really kmportant to the players as recruits and as team members.  Most guys take a couple years to get settled in to school and living away from the structured home life (assuming they are lucky enough to have a good childhood setting).  Physical and mental development and learning and with those - confidence - come over time. After 2 or 3 years maybe half,,if the program is well oiled and running steady, turn into good college fball players.  Change systems and coaches and schemes and positions etc and about half of those will need another year or more to get upto

their game performxnce potential. 
This is where Nebraska has been since Callahan (or even the last year of Solich after his asst coaching purge).   It doesn’t work.  Give it time - stop pressuring Frost to make big changes in staff on top of big roster change.  Stability and minimal change is what may be needed.  IMO. 

It definitely is what's needed.  And everyone from Bill Moose to Matt Davison to Scott Frost know this.  If we can keep most of these guys here for as long as Frost is here we will be in good shape.  The problem with good assisstants anywhere is that they typically will move up to a coordinator or head coach once they have success.  If you can find some good assistants who dont want to ever be a head coach then you need to keep them.  I think we may have a few on our staff, and Husker fans have already tried to run one of them out of town.  When it comes to our defensive coordinators, Husker nation is notoriously harsh.  Many of our fans cast their frustrations of the whole team on our DC.  Its always been this way here, going back to Mcbride.  It amazed me how in a season where our QB play, WR play, Offensive Line play, were all bigger problems than our defense, yet so many fans not just on here, but on radio shows wanted Chinander out , but yet almost noone wanted Verduzco gone.  I happen to think Chinander will be a great DC and he might be happy in that role.  

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, BigPeterJ said:

It definitely is what's needed.  And everyone from Bill Moose to Matt Davison to Scott Frost know this.  If we can keep most of these guys here for as long as Frost is here we will be in good shape.  The problem with good assisstants anywhere is that they typically will move up to a coordinator or head coach once they have success.  If you can find some good assistants who dont want to ever be a head coach then you need to keep them.  I think we may have a few on our staff, and Husker fans have already tried to run one of them out of town.  When it comes to our defensive coordinators, Husker nation is notoriously harsh.  Many of our fans cast their frustrations of the whole team on our DC.  Its always been this way here, going back to Mcbride.  It amazed me how in a season where our QB play, WR play, Offensive Line play, were all bigger problems than our defense, yet so many fans not just on here, but on radio shows wanted Chinander out , but yet almost noone wanted Verduzco gone.  I happen to think Chinander will be a great DC and he might be happy in that role.  

We need the majority of them to stay here till we see some success on the field and gives other good assistants reason to want to come be a part of it.  There will always be some then who get better jobs and move on.  If we are successful, then we can refill those positions with quality people.

[.1.]

Iowa just had the best season they'll have in a pretty long time from now. They're not going to be any better. In fact, they're going down by Nebraska in year 3 under Frost even at Kinnick Stadium. They won't even have their S & C edge over the Huskers in year 3 of coach Duval as well either. 

[swmohusker]

12 hours ago, .1. said:

Iowa just had the best season they'll have in a pretty long time from now. They're not going to be any better. In fact, they're going down by Nebraska in year 3 under Frost even at Kinnick Stadium. They won't even have their S & C edge over the Huskers in year 3 of coach Duval as well either. 

I agree, but Iowa had a better year in 2015.  They were a play away from being undefeated.... until the Stanford massacre.  

[.1.]

3 hours ago, swmohusker said:

I agree, but Iowa had a better year in 2015.  They were a play away from being undefeated.... until the Stanford massacre.  

Yeah, I know about that "World's easiest schedule" Iowa had in 2015 where a 6-7 Nebraska team was their toughest opposition that they barely beat by one score. But yeah, besides that Iowa just had the best season they could possibly have for the most part when playing a "real schedule". And they don't just reload their players like that since they can't recruit that well. So that usually means a somewhat of a "dip" is about to happen for them the very next season afterwords.