Should Clones be Granted Full Rights of a Citizen?

[BigRedBuster]

It's a person.  If they aren't a citizen of the US, then where are they a citizen of?  If a person doesn't have any citizenship to any country, how can they live on this planet and be a well adjusted member of society and contribute?

 

Kind of a non-sensical question.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

It's a person.  If they aren't a citizen of the US, then where are they a citizen of?  If a person doesn't have any citizenship to any country, how can they live on this planet and be a well adjusted member of society and contribute?

 

Kind of a non-sensical question.

 

I don't think it's nonsensical. I think this is a pretty valid question we're going to have to answer in the next couple of decades.

 

Someone somewhere is going to realize (or be told) they're a clone. And if that becomes public, then we're going to have to deal with it as a society. While you & I agree this is a no-brainer, they're people, they have citizenship, not everyone is going to agree.

 

 

[funhusker]

The more I think about inheritance rights, I think a clone deserves more than children.

 

If I were to "legally" clone myself, wouldn't it make more sense to leave my belongings to ME, and not my children??? 

 

Would my clone have equal rights to my property???  That's a perplexing question.  Is your clone you???

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

While you & I agree this is a no-brainer,

That's why it's non-sensical.  It should be a no-brainer.  Unless people can explain where the clone IS a citizen of, then they are a citizen of the US.

 

You can't create a baby without a home.  A civilized country doesn't do that.

 

So, anyone who tries to say they aren't a citizen of the US, can go pound sand.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

That's why it's non-sensical.  It should be a no-brainer.  Unless people can explain where the clone IS a citizen of, then they are a citizen of the US.

 

You can't create a baby without a home.  A civilized country doesn't do that.

 

So, anyone who tries to say they aren't a citizen of the US, can go pound sand.

 

I would imagine the argument would be that the clone is not a person, much like people considered the children produced from interracial coupling a non-person.

[funhusker]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

That's why it's non-sensical.  It should be a no-brainer.  Unless people can explain where the clone IS a citizen of, then they are a citizen of the US.

 

You can't create a baby without a home.  A civilized country doesn't do that.

 

So, anyone who tries to say they aren't a citizen of the US, can go pound sand.

What if a bachelor goes on a European vacation and knocks up a local girl he met at the pub.  He has no idea, but years later he is tracked down through one of those gene finder apps.  If it is proven the child is the offspring of the American does it grant him dual citizenship???

 

Just thinking for my book   Russian spies steal the genome of an American tourist, create a clone, seek American citizenship for him/her, and overtakes the government from the inside  (dum, dum, DUMMM)

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, funhusker said:

What if a bachelor goes on a European vacation and knocks up a local girl he met at the pub.  He has no idea, but years later he is tracked down through one of those gene finder apps.  If it is proven the child is the offspring of the American does it grant him dual citizenship???

 

Just thinking for my book   Russian spies steal the genome of an American tourist, create a clone, seek American citizenship for him/her, and overtakes the government from the inside  (dum, dum, DUMMM)

I don't see any reason why this example pertains to the original question.

[funhusker]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I don't see any reason why this example pertains to the original question.

Because it's about citizenship? 

 

If a clone is created in a foreign country with the genome of American citizen, is that clone a dual citizen?

 

[NUance]

57 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

It's a person.  If they aren't a citizen of the US, then where are they a citizen of?  If a person doesn't have any citizenship to any country, how can they live on this planet and be a well adjusted member of society and contribute?

 

Kind of a non-sensical question.

 

I dunno.  Is a clone even a person?  What if the clone didn't have legs, arms or a face?  Would it be a person?  What about specialized organ clones for rich people that only have a body, but no brain.  Would that a person?  What if the organ-clone had a brain, but with an IQ of 25.  (IQs in the range of 40 to 55 indicate severe mentally disability.) 

 

What would a clone need--as far as limbs, organs, body parts and/or IQ--in order to be considered a person? 

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, NUance said:

 

I dunno.  Is a clone even a person?  What if the clone didn't have legs, arms or a face?  Would it be a person?  What about specialized organ clones for rich people that only have a body, but no brain.  Would that a person?  What if the organ-clone had a brain, but with an IQ of 25.  (IQs in the range of 40 to 55 indicate severe mentally disability.) 

 

What would a clone need--as far as limbs, organs, body parts and/or IQ--in order to be considered a person? 

Do you know what a clone is?

[NUance]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Do you know what a clone is?

Do you?

[knapplc]

I'm not sure why you guys are asking each other that question.

 

I see what NUance is talking about with cloned body parts used to replace broken/worn out parts. That could be done by cloning.

 

But when you talk about "clones" without a specific definition, I think most people think of an identical copy of a human - the whole thing, from hair to toes.

 

Probably would be a good idea to define which facet of cloning we're talking about in this thread.

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

I'm not sure why you guys are asking each other that question.

 

I see what NUance is talking about with cloned body parts used to replace broken/worn out parts. That could be done by cloning.

 

But when you talk about "clones" without a specific definition, I think most people think of an identical copy of a human - the whole thing, from hair to toes.

 

Probably would be a good idea to define which facet of cloning we're talking about in this thread.

Well, when a pig valve is put in a human’s heart, is there questioning going on as to the citizenship of the valve?

 

sorry, but if some are talking about the citizenship of a cloned arm.....well....sorry, again that’s a nonsensical question. 
 

Of course we are talking about entire human cloning where you make a new person. 

[whateveritis1224]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:38 AM, knapplc said:

There's zero chance we don't have human clones walking the earth right now.  Dolly the Sheep was cloned in the mid 90s. There's been 25 years of research done since then, and there's someone, somewhere, who's been working on cloning humans.

 

I voted yes on the first two, no on the last one, but that's more of an "I don't know." The lack of knowledge of the gene donor makes it nebulous in my eyes. I think clones are no different than any other human, and I think they should have inheritance rights and every other right that a human has.

 

The last question isn't dissimilar to a guy hooking up with some girl in college, then 40 years later he finds out a child came from that. Or, let's say the product of that hookup shows up at the guy's funeral. There would be a legal claim, but it'd be fought in court. No different with a clone. That would have to be fought in court, and of course legal precedents set, all that stuff.

I'm with you on this until the last part. In your example, there are still two people whom (hopefully) are willing participants.

 

Maybe its just too much Sci-Fi, but a clone could happen from a small amount of genetic material. If that's done without the consenting knowledge of the clonee, then the clone should not have automatic inheritance rights. Major sticking point for me in the example is the active participation in the creation of the new life. If the clonee decides to include them in their inheritance, that is up for them to decide.

 

But even in this case, the clone should absolutely be granted full citizenship.

[HUSKER 37]

Great!!!

 

Now I've gotta burn the ends of my Q-tips I used after being bombarded with those ear wax ads.