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The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)


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15 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Bumping because it needs to be bumped

I am just sick of the blame one of the sides narrative. It is our entire elected body on both sides. Both tried to turn the narrative of covid to their side to score political points without actually giving a damn about any of us. They have adjusted their views to whatever polling says will get them the most votes. the 1% that actually come in thinking they can make a difference either have to walk the line or the party they are affiliated with will spend against them to get a new person in their place the next cycle. Trump made mistakes regarding the pandemic/vaccine and so did/is Joe. Additionally if I am not mistaken half of African-Americans are vaccine hesitant. Didnt know they were Trumpers and anti-vax. 

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10 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

So not "useless" then.   

 

Sure is if you fall into the 22% innefective category, but screw them right?

 

8 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

I am just sick of the blame one of the sides narrative. It is our entire elected body on both sides. Both tried to turn the narrative of covid to their side to score political points without actually giving a damn about any of us. They have adjusted their views to whatever polling says will get them the most votes. the 1% that actually come in thinking they can make a difference either have to walk the line or the party they are affiliated with will spend against them to get a new person in their place the next cycle. Trump made mistakes regarding the pandemic/vaccine and so did/is Joe. Additionally if I am not mistaken half of African-Americans are vaccine hesitant. Didnt know they were Trumpers and anti-vax. 

 

This MF spittin

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8 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Sure is if you fall into the 22% innefective category, but screw them right?

 

 

This MF spittin

100-88=12 for what it's worth.

 

And 88% effective is incredibly effective.  It's even higher at preventing death but screw those 88% who would have died or became seriously ill without a vaccine, right? 

 

I'm beginning to think you don't know how vaccine efficacy works.  

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At this point it's a fight against disinformation or no information. Trump is barely seen and heard from at this point, I don't blame him. Biden is obviously pro-vaccine - no one is holding on to a statement he made 10 months ago as proof to not get vaccinated.  Hell even NewsMax put out a statement saying go get the vaxxed! We do have pockets of disinformation. Far right groups like QANON being one. I think low income communities struggle as they have little to no info. I'd guess low income don't have a PCP and don't see a doctor on the regular. I mean at this point getting the resources and info to the low income communities is a hope. I don't know what to do with the Far Right conspiracy groups. They won't believe Trump or NewsMax if it goes against their agenda, these are the same people when Ivanka got vaxxed said it was made up and photoshopped. 

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7 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

100-88=12 for what it's worth.

 

And 88% effective is incredibly effective.  It's even higher at preventing death but screw those 88% who would have died or became seriously ill without a vaccine, right? 

 

I'm beginning to think you don't know how vaccine efficacy works.  

 

I'm sorry you're willfully construing what I said.  I feel super bad.  I made sure to add the caveat "in some instances" on the previous two points, I hope you can forgive me omitting it on that one but I assure it was implied.

 

But you go tell people how you set me straight :woo

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12 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

At this point it's a fight against disinformation or no information. Trump is barely seen and heard from at this point, I don't blame him. Biden is obviously pro-vaccine - no one is holding on to a statement he made 10 months ago as proof to not get vaccinated.  Hell even NewsMax put out a statement saying go get the vaxxed! We do have pockets of disinformation. Far right groups like QANON being one. I think low income communities struggle as they have little to no info. I'd guess low income don't have a PCP and don't see a doctor on the regular. I mean at this point getting the resources and info to the low income communities is a hope. I don't know what to do with the Far Right conspiracy groups. They won't believe Trump or NewsMax if it goes against their agenda, these are the same people when Ivanka got vaxxed said it was made up and photoshopped. 

 

I mentioned this before, but here is an analysis of "vaccine disinformation" being perpetrated by 12, yes 12, people.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

 

Researchers have found just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of the misleading claims and outright lies about COVID-19 vaccines that proliferate on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. "The 'Disinformation Dozen' produce 65% of the shares of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," said Imran Ahmed, chief executive officer of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which identified the accounts.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I'm not saying there wouldn't be. I'm saying that there would be fewer of them. 

 

The GOP has convinced millions of Americans to distrust anything they view as "elite". They've done a good job of winning elections by cultivating that kind of populism. (Democrats also try to tap into populism with inaccurate statements, but that's for a different thread). The downside of the GOPs version of distrusting-populism is where we are today. 

 

Anti-mask sentiment was intensified as a result. Vaccine hesitancy has been amplified as a result. More Americans have got COVID, have been hospitalized, and have died as a result.

If we are going to go by your insane logic, then how many lives did the Trump administration save by pushing the envelope so hard on vaccine development and production vs the Democrat view of mitigation as the answer and vaccines will come later down the line.  1, 2, 500, 10,000, 1 million, 10 million????

 

Remember many of the prominent  Dem’s saying and Fauci saying it’s a pipe dream to get a vaccine approved in 2020?  I do 

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1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

I mean, infer it how you like.  Not seeing any real Dem criticism here:

 

 

I've never said Democrats have no blame, they too messed up their messaging at points in the pandemic that lead to poor outcomes.

 

My contention is simple: Republicans handled it worse than Democrats would have and more Americans have been harmed as a result. 

 

This is easy to demonstrate, as 99.5% of all deaths by COVID are among unvaccinated individuals today, and being unvaccinated is strongly correlated to support for President Trump/the GOP. Would anti-vaxxersbe dying anyway? YES. Are there more anti-vaxxers as a result of right-wing disinformation? YES.

 

But I get it. Nobody wants to admit they support a political party that is more harmful than the alternative.

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I'm sorry you're willfully construing what I said.  I feel super bad.  I made sure to add the caveat "in some instances" on the previous two points, I hope you can forgive me omitting it on that one but I assure it was implied.

 

But you go tell people how you set me straight :woo

You said the vaccines were useless against the (Delta) variant.  That's not true and pretty dangerous to be throwing out there.  If that's setting you straight, you're welcome.  

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5 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

You said the vaccines were useless against the (Delta) variant.  That's not true and pretty dangerous to be throwing out there.  If that's setting you straight, you're welcome.  

 

No thank you, I don't need correction.  I know what I meant, and so do you.  But since that was my one omission you're latching onto it to discredit the rest.  I'm familiar with the game you're playing, it's dangerous.

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5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I mentioned this before, but here is an analysis of "vaccine disinformation" being perpetrated by 12, yes 12, people.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

 

Researchers have found just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of the misleading claims and outright lies about COVID-19 vaccines that proliferate on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. "The 'Disinformation Dozen' produce 65% of the shares of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," said Imran Ahmed, chief executive officer of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which identified the accounts.

Alternative Medicine grifters. One is from Omaha, yay! IDK what the solution is for the folks that listen to these a$$h@!es. They need a dose of reality by getting sick themselves or a close friend/relative. 

 

We're at 70% of people over 18 with at least 1 shot right now. If we get to 80% by this fall, with younger people getting it too we should be in good shape. Getting 80% of adults in the US to do something would be a pretty incredible feat. Unfortunately things like this have a ceiling. 

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2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

If we are going to go by your insane logic, then how many lives did the Trump administration save by pushing the envelope so hard on vaccine development and production vs the Democrat view of mitigation as the answer and vaccines will come later down the line.  1, 2, 500, 10,000, 1 million, 10 million????

 

Remember many of the prominent  Dem’s saying and Fauci saying it’s a pipe dream to get a vaccine approved in 2020?  I do 

I think it was pretty common knowledge that it was going to take 18 months to fast track a vaccine. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html). Most reputable news outlets reported 12 to 18 months to develop the vaccine.

 

Trump and his administration deserve credit for handling the vaccine development via Operation Warp Speed. Was it faster than if Democrats were in charge? Maybe. 

 

What isn't debatable is that the messaging during the Pandemic that masks were oppressive lead to bad health outcomes, which was done largely by Republicans. Misinformation regarding vaccines continues to lead to bad health outcomes, with the biggest correlation being support for Trump.

 

Was Democrat messaging on masks and vaccines perfect? No. Harris deserves criticism especially. Has mask use or vaccine hesitancy regarding COVID ever been a large part of left-wing news outlets? No.

 

On the other hand, right-wing news outlets amplified anti-mask sentiment. They amplified anti-vax sentiment. This has led to worse health outcomes compared to the (imperfect) messaging by the left.

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11 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I've never said Democrats have no blame, they too messed up their messaging at points in the pandemic that lead to poor outcomes.

 

My contention is simple: Republicans handled it worse than Democrats would have and more Americans have been harmed as a result. 

 

This is easy to demonstrate, as 99.5% of all deaths by COVID are among unvaccinated individuals today, and being unvaccinated is strongly correlated to support for President Trump/the GOP. Would anti-vaxxersbe dying anyway? YES. Are there more anti-vaxxers as a result of right-wing disinformation? YES.

 

But I get it. Nobody wants to admit they support a political party that is more harmful than the alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

That is 100% opinion based and has no bearing on reality.  Unless you have Rick Sanchez's portal gun, we can't peer into an alternative reality and very your assumptions.  Pushing opinion as fact is the same tactic the media uses, it's quite effective and dangerous.

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8 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Alternative Medicine grifters. One is from Omaha, yay! IDK what the solution is for the folks that listen to these a$$h@!es. They need a dose of reality by getting sick themselves or a close friend/relative. 

 

We're at 70% of people over 18 with at least 1 shot right now. If we get to 80% by this fall, with younger people getting it too we should be in good shape. Getting 80% of adults in the US to do something would be a pretty incredible feat. Unfortunately things like this have a ceiling. 

I want to know what percentage of people who arent vaccinated have already tested covid positive so we actually understand the total percentage of people in the US that have a form of immunity to covid. I would imagine not every person who got covid also got the shot. So is it 10% more? 5%? Where are we at? 

 

Additionally when looking at the total number of positive test does it account for people that tested multiple times? Say you test positive go back a week later feeling fine and test positive again? Is that 2 positives in the databases we keep looking at or 1? 

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1 minute ago, Redux said:

 

That is 100% opinion based and has no bearing on reality.  Unless you have Rick Sanchez's portal gun, we can't peer into an alternative reality and very your assumptions.  Pushing opinion as fact is the same tactic the media uses, it's quite effective and dangerous.

Not at all. Do you believe in the overwhelming consensus that masks help mitigate the spread of the virus? (The answer is yes) or that vaccines save lives? (Also yes)

 

As a follow-up, do you believe that Republicans or Democrats spread more negative messaging regarding those? (The answer is Republicans) 

 

This isn't the fanatical logical step in taking here. Don't make this harder than it is. 

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