The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[nic]

Tonga gets its first case. A vaccinated passenger from New Zealand that tested negative before getting on the fight brought it with them. Tonga has 86% of its population with one dose and 62% with two doses. I always wondered how the countries that completely isolated in rounds one and two would fare. I hope they do well.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/30/asia/tonga-first-covid-case-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[Archy1221]

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-says-pandemic-is-over-and-masks-should-be-too-red-states-are-a-joy/?utm_source=mostpopular

[RedDenver]

23 hours ago, nic said:

Quotes from Bill Maher on his show Friday.

"Also, vaccine, mask, pick one! You've got to pick. You can't make me mask if I've had the vaccine,"

In which Maher tells us he doesn't actually know how infectious diseases spread or risk mitigation works.

"Also, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, pick one! You've got to pick. You can't make me buckle up if I've had anti-lock brakes installed."

[Archy1221]

10 hours ago, RedDenver said:

In which Maher tells us he doesn't actually know how infectious diseases spread or risk mitigation works.

"Also, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, pick one! You've got to pick. You can't make me buckle up if I've had anti-lock brakes installed."

In which @RedDenver compares infectious disease spread or risk mitigation to a car.  LOL 

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

In which @RedDenver compares infectious disease spread or risk mitigation to a car.  LOL 

analogy: a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

 

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

analogy: a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

 

Yes, I went to school too, but the point is to try and use one that actually works.  

[Jason Sitoke]

11 hours ago, RedDenver said:

In which Maher tells us he doesn't actually know how infectious diseases spread or risk mitigation works.

"Also, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, pick one! You've got to pick. You can't make me buckle up if I've had anti-lock brakes installed."

In keeping with the theme, it might be more analogous to mandating a 15 mph speed limit AND seatbelts.

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Yes, I went to school too, but the point is to try and use one that actually works.  

It works and you know it. But here's another one that's visual for those who struggle with written analogies:

 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

It works and you know it. But here's another one that's visual for those who struggle with written analogies:

 

It doesn’t work because if you are vaccinated, according to the CDC, your risk of hospitalization/deaths is very slim. 
 

If you are driving 70 wear your seat belt and slam on the breaks during a rainstorm/snowstorm without antilock breaks, roll the car or slide into oncoming traffic….your risk of hospitalization/death is much greater than slim.  
 

Now to your graph….We have had vaccines since Dec2020 and wide rollout since March 2021.   Everyone has had a chance to make their choice.   Those who have antibodies should not have to live with restrictions because others don’t have the antibodies.  It’s a personal responsibility choice at this point. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

4 hours ago, Jason Sitoke said:

In keeping with the theme, it might be more analogous to mandating a 15 mph speed limit AND seatbelts.

 

Which would be stupid in normal conditions. But what if there's glare ice on the street? 

[Jason Sitoke]

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Which would be stupid in normal conditions. But what if there's glare ice on the street? 

Depends on your risk tolerance, I would think.  If the concern is to avoid death and serious injury, driving 15 mph alone should keep you within that profile.

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

It doesn’t work because if you are vaccinated, according to the CDC, your risk of hospitalization/deaths is very slim. 
 

If you are driving 70 wear your seat belt and slam on the breaks during a rainstorm/snowstorm without antilock breaks, roll the car or slide into oncoming traffic….your risk of hospitalization/death is much greater than slim.  

The mask is to help minimize spread of the virus. While the risks are low, they are even lower with vaccines and masks than with either alone. That's the entire point of risk mitigation, which is why Maher is talking nonsense that we can only choose one. Circumstances and situations should dictate what risk mitigations we take, not some arbitrary either-or gibberish.

 

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Now to your graph….We have had vaccines since Dec2020 and wide rollout since March 2021.   Everyone has had a chance to make their choice.   Those who have antibodies should not have to live with restrictions because others don’t have the antibodies.  It’s a personal responsibility choice at this point. 

Except that spreading the virus, even with lowered risk of bad outcomes, still comes with risks like the immuno-compromised or increased chances of a new variant or overwhelmed healthcare facilities due to the unvaccinated. I agree that we've mostly reached the point where we're transitioning into endemic phases, but mask mandates may still be necessary in locations where the virus is spreading rapidly.

[Jason Sitoke]

3 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Except that spreading the virus, even with lowered risk of bad outcomes, still comes with risks like the immuno-compromised or increased chances of a new variant or overwhelmed healthcare facilities due to the unvaccinated. I agree that we've mostly reached the point where we're transitioning into endemic phases, but mask mandates may still be necessary in locations where the virus is spreading rapidly.

Not quite to your point, but I've seen very little evidence that this latest round of regional mandates has done anything measurable to mitigate the spread.  Likely several factors for this, none of which include (for the record) that masks themselves 'don't work'.

[RedDenver]

9 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Not quite to your point, but I've seen very little evidence that this latest round of regional mandates has done anything measurable to mitigate the spread.  Likely several factors for this, none of which include (for the record) that masks themselves 'don't work'.

Yes, there's good arguments that mask mandates aren't necessary for a particular place and time, but not blanket statements like Maher is making.

[Guy Chamberlin]

14 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Depends on your risk tolerance, I would think.  If the concern is to avoid death and serious injury, driving 15 mph alone should keep you within that profile.

 

What if the seat belt protects you, but the low speed limit protects others?

 

What if the vaccine is studded-snow tires?

 

What if an anti-vaxxer has cut your brake line?

 

What if you're driving a 1988 Toyota Tercel?

 

No sure you've really thought this analogy through, Jason.