The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[Jason Sitoke]

9 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Yes, there's good arguments that mask mandates aren't necessary for a particular place and time, but not blanket statements like Maher is making.

It's hard to discern his context with that statement, I agree.  I can sympathize with the tone of the frustration, nonetheless.  I live in Boulder County, where there has been an indoor mask mandate for 2 months now and the county is highly vaccinated.  Cases and hospitalizations remain high, regardless.  We can theorize as to why, but one factor might be that if a person is unvaccinated, they are probably unmasked as well, given that we all know a mask mandate has never been quite that, at least as I understand the definition of the word 'mandate'.  So we have a bunch of vaccinated  people walking around in masks, and unvaccinated people spreading it among themselves.  Given that reality, masks seem pointless at this time and place.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Jason Sitoke]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

What if the seat belt protects you, but the low speed limit protects others?

 

What if the vaccine is studded-snow tires?

 

What if an anti-vaxxer has cut your brake line?

 

What if you're driving a 1988 Toyota Tercel?

 

No sure you've really thought this analogy through, Jason. 

I really think I have.  I think we're experiencing a breakdown in how you and I view risk tolerance.  What is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me.   I believe mask mandates (at this point in the pandemic) are yielding diminishing returns.  I have a mandate where I live, and I wear one because it's not a huge deal and I really don't care to rock the boat.  If I'm being honest though, I don't see the point, and I certainly haven't seen anything measurable that shows it's making one bit of difference here.  Vaccination is/was the way out.  To stay with the analogy, unvaccinated people have chosen their own reckless express lane at this point.  Why am I slowing down in my lane?

[Guy Chamberlin]

4 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

I really think I have.  I think we're experiencing a breakdown in how you and I view risk tolerance.  What is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me.   I believe mask mandates (at this point in the pandemic) are yielding diminishing returns.  I have a mandate where I live, and I wear one because it's not a huge deal and I really don't care to rock the boat.  If I'm being honest though, I don't see the point, and I certainly haven't seen anything measurable that shows it's making one bit of difference here.  Vaccination is/was the way out.  To stay with the analogy, unvaccinated people have chosen their own reckless express lane at this point.  Why am I slowing down in my lane?

 

I think you missed the point.

 

I wanted you to join me in making over-the-top automotive jokes. 

[Jason Sitoke]

Just now, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I think you missed the point.

 

I wanted you to join me in making over-the-top automotive jokes. 

Yeah, we need to let this metaphor die.  I've sadly reached the end of my automotive knowledge.

[RedDenver]

26 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

It's hard to discern his context with that statement, I agree.  I can sympathize with the tone of the frustration, nonetheless.  I live in Boulder County, where there has been an indoor mask mandate for 2 months now and the county is highly vaccinated.  Cases and hospitalizations remain high, regardless.  We can theorize as to why, but one factor might be that if a person is unvaccinated, they are probably unmasked as well, given that we all know a mask mandate has never been quite that, at least as I understand the definition of the word 'mandate'.  So we have a bunch of vaccinated  people walking around in masks, and unvaccinated people spreading it among themselves.  Given that reality, masks seem pointless at this time and place.

 

Just my thoughts.

Fair enough. Is Boulder not enforcing the mask mandate? I'm in nearby Broomfield county and the mask mandate was strictly enforced last year and seemed pretty effective at that time. Also don't know if maybe the cases would be even worse without the mandate - difficult to know.

[Guy Chamberlin]

My county lifted its mask mandate today. 

 

We had a great vaccination rate and high mask compliance, hence low infection numbers and deaths. 

 

I think we would have stayed pretty low even if the mandate hadn't gone back into effect in July, but that's just my educated guess. Don't like masks myself, but I'd gotten used to wearing them in stores. We remained maskless for restaurants indoors and out, the return of live music, massages and tattoos. Really not much I haven't been able to do for the past six months because of COVID. Not exactly sure what all the complaining is about.  

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

Fair enough. Is Boulder not enforcing the mask mandate? I'm in nearby Broomfield county and the mask mandate was strictly enforced last year and seemed pretty effective at that time. Also don't know if maybe the cases would be even worse without the mandate - difficult to know.

No enforcement that I can see.  Honestly I've never really seen any kind of enforcement ever, other than person A yelling at person B in Wal-Mart, and now people are so over it no one cares.

 

And yes, I agree with your last statement.  I have no control scenario with which to compare, so I'm hypothesizing.

[Jason Sitoke]

Just now, Guy Chamberlin said:

My county lifted its mask mandate today. 

 

We had a great vaccination rate and high mask compliance, hence low infection numbers and deaths. 

 

I think we would have stayed pretty low even if the mandate hadn't gone back into effect in July, but that's just my educated guess. Don't like masks myself, but I'd gotten used to wearing them in stores. We remained maskless for restaurants indoors and out, the return of live music, massages and tattoos. Really not much I haven't been able to do for the past six months because of COVID. Not exactly sure what all the complaining is about.  

Great to hear.  

 

I have a home in New Orleans and I'm there about once a month.  NOLA has been a serious hotspot 3 different times during the pandemic.  They lifted their mask mandate last Friday after hospitalizations dropped significantly (3000+ in August down to <300 as of today).  The city has been pretty compliant overall each time a 'mandate' went into effect...except for this last one.  No one cared, and certainly the tourists cared even less.  A while back, the mayor and the director of the NOLA health department congratulated themselves and announced that there was no doubt the reason for the cases subsiding was the reinstitution of the mask mandate.  I know it's politics 101 to find a way to take credit for anything good, but it was an utterly ridiculous claim given what I'd seen throughout the city.  It just drives home the point for me that when this is unanimously 'over', no one is going to be able to agree on what worked, what didn't, or what actually happened for that matter...which is very sad since we really should have learned something here.

[BigRedBuster]

There is something odd about this whole thing for me.

 

Police so often have the attitude when in public that "if I ask you to do something, you damn well better do it and don't question it".

 

BUT....when they are asked by authority to do something.......

 

 

[commando]

16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

There is something odd about this whole thing for me.

 

Police so often have the attitude when in public that "if I ask you to do something, you damn well better do it and don't question it".

 

BUT....when they are asked by authority to do something.......

 

 

i would bet that they are almost all republicans.

[Guy Chamberlin]

10 minutes ago, commando said:

i would bet that they are almost all republicans.

 

I was originally baffled by the 30% of nurses and healthcare workers who were against vaccination. They had the same facts and first hand accounts as 70% of their colleagues. But COVID had drawn a political line, and that belief system was more powerful for a significant portion of the population. 

[Jason Sitoke]

54 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I was originally baffled by the 30% of nurses and healthcare workers who were against vaccination. They had the same facts and first hand accounts as 70% of their colleagues. But COVID had drawn a political line, and that belief system was more powerful for a significant portion of the population. 

“I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.”
                                   -Bertrand Russell

[nic]

20 hours ago, RedDenver said:

In which Maher tells us he doesn't actually know how infectious diseases spread or risk mitigation works.

"Also, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, pick one! You've got to pick. You can't make me buckle up if I've had anti-lock brakes installed."

I would buckle up. You can still hit something. How about air bags or belts.

[Scarlet]

 

[commando]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

There is something odd about this whole thing for me.

 

Police so often have the attitude when in public that "if I ask you to do something, you damn well better do it and don't question it".

 

BUT....when they are asked by authority to do something.......

 

 

when push comes to shove...they are not giving up their pensions