The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[DevoHusker]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

31 of the 32 OECD countries have single payer healthcare systems with the US being the only country without it.

 

The US at 330 million is 25% of the OECD population. So the other 31 countries have 3x the population of the US and yet all of them have figured out how to do single payer.

 

Individually. 

[DevoHusker]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

31 of the 32 OECD countries have single payer healthcare systems with the US being the only country without it.

 

The US at 330 million is 25% of the OECD population. So the other 31 countries have 3x the population of the US and yet all of them have figured out how to do single payer.

I am not against a single payer plan, and I think that the wealthiest nation on earth needs to take care of it's citizens better.

 

But, people can't just shout "Well, it works in Norway!!" Because those countries have a completely different set of circumstances. Somewhere there has to be a blend of what works there, and what would work in the US....however, I haven't seen one yet.

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

No, it doesn't.  If you have more people, you also have more people paying for it.

 

Population level has nothing to do with it.  This is a worn out argument that has no merit.  We live in the richest country in the world but, we can't figure out how to provide healthcare to everyone because people refuse to even consider it because of SOCIALISM!!!!, 

I’m sorry, but it definitely does matter some. 
 

We also subsidize darn near every other countries healthcare and security.  
 

Maybe we should use some of our riches and take care of our own country a little more and stop subsidizing darn near the entire world. 
 

 

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Individually. 

Yes, it makes the case for single payer in the US even stronger that not only does 3x the population of the US have single payer, but 31 individual countries all figured it out.

 

 

[RedDenver]

Just now, DevoHusker said:

I am not against a single payer plan, and I think that the wealthiest nation on earth needs to take care of it's citizens better.

 

But, people can't just shout "Well, it works in Norway!!" Because those countries have a completely different set of circumstances. Somewhere there has to be a blend of what works there, and what would work in the US....however, I haven't seen one yet.

People aren't just shouting "Well, it works in Norway!" They're shouting about 31 different countries where it works and those 31 countries are in many ways the the most similar to the US which is why they're in the OECD. Canada has a smaller population and larger geographic area and yet they figured it out.

[DevoHusker]

Just now, RedDenver said:

Yes, it makes the case for single payer in the US even stronger that not only does 3x the population of the US have single payer, but 31 individual countries all figured it out.

 

 

31 individual countries that, again individually, have only to contend with 1/10 to 1/2 of our population, and 50 individual States rights within the framework. 

[Archy1221]

7 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

31 of the 32 OECD countries have single payer healthcare systems with the US being the only country without it.

 

The US at 330 million is 25% of the OECD population. So the other 31 countries have 3x the population of the US and yet all of them have figured out how to do single payer.

And don’t they have 31 different systems?  

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I’m sorry, but it definitely does matter some. 
 

We also subsidize darn near every other countries healthcare and security.  
 

Maybe we should use some of our riches and take care of our own country a little more and stop subsidizing darn near the entire world. 

How are we subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare exactly?

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

I am not against a single payer plan, and I think that the wealthiest nation on earth needs to take care of it's citizens better.

 

But, people can't just shout "Well, it works in Norway!!" Because those countries have a completely different set of circumstances. Somewhere there has to be a blend of what works there, and what would work in the US....however, I haven't seen one yet.

And let’s also wait to see how MFN (if it indeed becomes viable) affects all these countries.   There is zero chance that drug companies will lower the US cost Substantially to the lowest country cost.  Those companies will just quit selling into those countries and stay in the most lucrative markets.  
 

Those countries depend on us subsidizing their healthcare, otherwise their systems don’t work. 

[Dr. Strangelove]

12 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Yes all those Nordic countries have 340+million people.  

You're right. 

 

Considering the cost savings per capita with their health care, the dollar amount we could save is probably larger than I realized. 

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

31 individual countries that, again individually, have only to contend with 1/10 to 1/2 of our population, and 50 individual States rights within the framework. 

And yet somehow EVERY SINGLE ONE figured it out. And combined they're providing healthcare for 3x the US population. I guess we're just too stupid to be able to do what the rest of the world has already done many times over?

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

How are we subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare exactly?

Vast majority of Drug and device manufacturer profits come from the US market.  Every company I know of has a US division (Or NA because of travel) and a Global division.  Those markets are entered for increased revenue, but very little profit overall 

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

And yet somehow EVERY SINGLE ONE figured it out. And combined they're providing healthcare for 3x the US population. I guess we're just too stupid to be able to do what the rest of the world has already done many times over?

So you are basically advocating for us to have 50 different Single payer Healthcare Systems in the US.  1 for each state 

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

And yet somehow EVERY SINGLE ONE figured it out. And combined they're providing healthcare for 3x the US population. I guess we're just too stupid to be able to do what the rest of the world has already done many times over?

Or we’re too stupid to keep subsidizing those countries both in healthcare and security. 

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Vast majority of Drug and device manufacturer profits come from the US market.  Every company I know of has a US division (Or NA because of travel) and a Global division.  Those markets are entered for increased revenue, but very little profit overall 

That's it? Healthcare is WAY more than just drug prices. And that's even assuming your argument is correct.

Just now, Archy1221 said:

So you are basically advocating for us to have 50 different Single payer Healthcare Systems in the US.  1 for each state 

I'm not advocating for that, but it's something we could do if someone wants to come up with a plan. The US federal government has flexibility in spending that states do not have, so a federal healthcare system makes more sense economically IMO. Plus it's a hard sell that just across the border someone is getting cheaper healthcare, so it's also politically easier do federally.

[BigRedBuster]

16 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Maybe we should use some of our riches and take care of our own country a little more and stop subsidizing darn near the entire world. 
 

GREAT....let's use some of those riches to fund healthcare.  Now you're onto something.

 

FYI....one main reason why those country's healthcare is cheaper is because they have one entity that negotiates prices.  We don't.  So, a company like Pfizer drops their prices in Norway and makes up for it by raising prices in the US.  They can do that because it's so damn easy to do in the US because the people who actually pay Pfizer don't have a motivation to negotiate.  They just pass it on to us.

 

So....yes....we are subsidizing those other countries.  But...it's because our own system SUCKS.  Thus....getting back to my statement that our healthcare system is NOT the best in the world.  Not even close.

FYI....the results coming OUT of our healthcare system don't even match those other countries.  They are, overall, a healthier population with better results from the system....AND IT'S CHEAPER.

 

FYI....we actually have an entire thread on this subject on here.