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The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)


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Just now, RedDenver said:

Ok, I see. I disagree as the M4A bill put out by Bernie Sanders will work IMO. But I'll say that perfection is the enemy of the good, so waiting for the perfect plan isn't a good strategy.

 

I can get behind that outlook. 

 

I am reading up more on the France variation of the 31 you mentioned earlier. 

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Just now, DevoHusker said:

 

I can get behind that outlook. 

 

I am reading up more on the France variation of the 31 you mentioned earlier. 

France is an interesting case as it's considered the best and I think is also the most expensive of the 31 OECD healthcare systems. We could spend more to get more or spend less to get less.

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HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Personal Choice in America. What kind of ridiculous statement is that when it comes to healthcare. Unless you are independently wealthy there is no such thing as personal choice when it comes to healthcare in America. 

 

I get told by my employer who my insurance provider will be

I get told by my employer what my premium will be 

I get told by my insurance provider which doctors they will *help* pay for (with my money)

I get told by my insurance provider whether they will *help* pay for emergency services (with my money)

I get told by my insurance provider whether they will *help* pay for preventative care (with my money)

I get told by my insurance provider what necessary procedures they will *help* pay for (with my money)

I get told by my insurance provider what medicines they will *help* pay for (with my money)

My insurance provider has directly contradicted medical advice from my in-network doctors about whether procedures were necessary and refused to cover them

Death panels exist they are called private insurance companies.

 

The only personal choice is whether to go bankrupt or die. Every other decision is dictated. But please go on about personal choice in the American healthcare system.

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27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Umm..this is actually a subject I've studied quite a bit.  I fully understand what those rankings mean.  And...our healthcare system still SUCKS.

 

First off, what is MFN?  I google it and it comes up as Most Favored Nation.

Yes

Much of what you said is true.  Personal choices matter...a lot.  But...many of those personal choices are at least similar to other countries, but, when someone gets diabetes, people in those other counties aren't deciding if they are going to pay rent or buy insulin.
I didn’t think it was up for debate that the US has one of if not the worst diets in the industrialized world. One of the costs and benefits of living so freely I guess.  Bad diets directly lead to health issues that cost our system the most overall dollars. 
 

Didn’t the Trump admin work to help lower Insulin costs?   

 

OR.....they aren't deciding to not have a surgery because it would bankrupt them.

I’m sure this does happen.  But please don’t discount the loss of income component to the BK.  A surgery that requires someone to be out of work for 3 months may cause a BK even with Medicare type costs (20% copay). 
 

You are totally being flippant in that you assume prices in the US would only go down slightly compared to the increase in other countries.  Can you show me the study on that?  I thought I read somewhere that you own a business in NE.  Imagine you had customers in Omaha that paid $900 for your product and customers in Kearney that paid $200 (just enough to eke out a profit)  now imagine that NE said you can only charge one price for your product and it has to be the lowest listed price in the state for everyone.  What would you do? Lower the Omaha price to $200 and lose most of your profit? Lower Omaha some and raise Kearney a lot knowing Kearney sales will slow greatly or get out of the Kearney market all together and keep your cash cow? 

 

27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

The private healthcare insurance industry is ripping us off and allowing the healthcare industry to rip us off even more.  I definitely think there is room for reform in the insurance industry and drug/device company industry and huge reform with the hospital lobby.  You brought surgery.  Did you know that Hospital surgery centers make up to twice as much as an ASC for the same procedure in many cases?   Why?   Because they have a better lobby.  I think there is a lot of room to shave costs without overhauling an entire system. 


As far as mortality rates go, look at the mortality rates of individual hospital systems.  It’s surprising at first glance to not see the top names at the very top of the list in some instances.  Surprising that is until you see that those institutions are taking care of the worst of the worst cases and doing an outstanding job in prolonging life.  But it affects their numbers if people don’t know that they are actually looking at

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Personal Choice in America. What kind of ridiculous statement is that when it comes to healthcare. Unless you are independently wealthy there is no such thing as personal choice when it comes to healthcare in America. 

In a single payer system 

I get told by my employer who my insurance provider will be

I get told by my employer what my premium will be you will get that same information from the government instead 

I get told by my insurance provider which doctors they will *help* pay for (with my money)You will get told by the government which provider they will “help” pay for (with your money). 

I get told by my insurance provider whether they will *help* pay for emergency services (with my money)
you will get told by the government if they will pay for a procedure (with your money) and how long you will have to wait. 

I get told by my insurance provider whether they will *help* pay for preventative care (with my money)they do, and so will the new government insurance

I get told by my insurance provider what necessary procedures they will *help* pay for (with my money) you will get told by the government insurance what procedures they will “help” pay for (with your money) 

My insurance provider has directly contradicted medical advice from my in-network doctors about whether procedures were necessary and refused to cover them Big issue with me on this too.  Can someone please figure out a reform for this.  

Death panels exist they are called private insurance companies. Those same “panels” exist to a greater extent in socialist countries.   It’s called moving a patient to hospice instead of continuing treatment. 

 

The only personal choice is whether to go bankrupt or die. Not true but be a little more dramatic. I’ve had a family member in ICU for 4 days on a vent and neither BK or died thank God.  Every other decision is dictated. Ok, and the government insurance won’t dictate anything?  They will just say “OK Mr. BornNBled, tell us what we are doing today for you”. But please go on about personal choice in the American healthcare system.

 

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1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I didn’t think it was up for debate that the US has one of if not the worst diets in the industrialized world. One of the costs and benefits of living so freely I guess.  Bad diets directly lead to health issues that cost our system the most overall dollars.

This doesn't affect the cost of the individual treatment.  People in the US spend multiple times the cost of the same procedure as other countries do.  That's directly related to the relationship the system has with insurance companies.

 

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22 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Didn’t the Trump admin work to help lower Insulin costs?   

You can celebrate the victory with one drug all you want.  But, the problem is systemic with just about everything we consume healthcare wise.

 

Interestingly, this example proves a single payer plan is better.  We had one entity dictating what these companies need to do if they are going to do business in the US.  GREAT!!! IT WORKED!!!

 

Meanwhile, all I hear from the right is that government involvement in healthcare is BAD... SOCIALISM.!!!!!

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4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

You can celebrate the victory with one drug all you want.  But, the problem is systemic with just about everything we consume healthcare wise.

 

Interestingly, this example proves a single payer plan is better.  We had one entity dictating what these companies need to do if they are going to do business in the US.  GREAT!!! IT WORKED!!!

 

Meanwhile, all I hear from the right is that government involvement in healthcare is BAD... SOCIALISM.!!!!!

You brought insulin specifically so I referred to insulin specifically 

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20 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

 

So @Archy1221 to summarize your response, "Nothing I stated will change under a single payer system."  Correct? 

 

So, worst case scenario, nothing changes, except that it will remove the lecherous middle man private insurance industry, that does nothing to add to my quality of care, but harvests trillions of dollars annually from the healthcare system. Seems like a great way to reduce costs and make healthcare more affordable to everyone. Why is this even remotely scary to anyone?

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13 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

What issues, as you see them, rank 1-2-3?

I would say 1) Hospital care cost 2) bloating in private and government admin costs (money wise it’s probably 3rd but def room for ridding some waste)  3) physician services could be a little high in many areas outside of general care (lower the entry cost to being a physician and specialist may help some tolerate less income). 4) drug pricing.  Maybe cap the rate of price increases.  Definitely work on the generic price model.  Outrageous what has happened to generic prices since ACA came on board. 
 

That said, room for cuts in all aspects I think 
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I would say 1) Hospital care cost 2) bloating in private and government admin costs (money wise it’s probably 3rd but def room for ridding some waste)  3) physician services could be a little high in many areas outside of general care (lower the entry cost to being a physician and specialist may help some tolerate less income). 4) drug pricing.  Maybe cap the rate of price increases.  Definitely work on the generic price model.  Outrageous what has happened to generic prices since ACA came on board. 
 

That said, room for cuts in all aspects I think 
 

 

So, more  government involvement?

I'm only asking this because most of the time, someone who is from the right/Republican side of things, they proclaim government needs to get out of it and it would all take care of itself.

 

Just asking for clarification.

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2 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

So @Archy1221 to summarize your response, "Nothing I stated will change under a single payer system."  Correct? 

 

So, worst case scenario, nothing changes, except that it will remove the lecherous middle man private insurance industry, that does nothing to add to my quality of care, but harvests trillions of dollars annually from the healthcare system. Seems like a great way to reduce costs and make healthcare more affordable to everyone. Why is this even remotely scary to anyone?

Well, providers depend on private insurance rates to pay their bills.  If your happy with less providers, less innovation, then go with an all Medicare solution. 
 

If that’s your solution, then why don’t we have the government run everything?  Get rid of every middle man and things will be cheaper all around.  Gov could own every store and products will be cheaper too. Gov could own every manufacturing facility and company that way everything is cheaper and get those darned middle men profits out of there.  Less costs, more money for the rest of us, cause salaries will all be the same or Gov can just give us monthly checks since they own everything 

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

So, more  government involvement?

I'm only asking this because most of the time, someone who is from the right/Republican side of things, they proclaim government needs to get out of it and it would all take care of itself.

 

Just asking for clarification.

Since 66% of our healthcare dollars spent are paid out by the Government currently, it is impossible to have government out of the equation.  Since all payments rates are basically set by the government currently, it is impossible to have government out of everything.  
 

maybe we do need more of a free market solution:dunno will a few regulations along the way.  

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