The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[nic]

Woody Harrelson on SNL...funny.

 

"So the movie goes like this," the actor explained. "The biggest drug cartels in the world get together and buy up all the media and all the politicians and force all the people in the world to stay locked in their homes. And people can only come out if they take the cartel’s drugs and keep taking them over and over."

Harrelson then joked: "I threw the script away. I mean, who was going to believe that crazy idea? Being forced to do drugs? I do that voluntarily all day."

 

[ZRod]

2 hours ago, nic said:

Do you all remember when Twitter was flagging posts and doing temp bans for people claiming COVID came from a lab. At least now you can theorize.

 

The Energy Department, which was previously undecided on the origin of the pandemic, now joins the FBI’s stance that the coronavirus likely spread due to a mishap at a Chinese laboratory, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress. 

Might want to read that article.

[Archy1221]

Read the article to understand the DOE came to a “low confidence” conclusion it’s highly likely the virus came from a lab leak?   Seems as though he did it read it.  Is there any wisdom the other poster would like to impart on us that came from the WSJ article?  

[Scarlet]

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm still trying to figure out what the energy department has to do with this subject.

 

Seems to me to be like asking your mechanic why you have an irregular heartbeat.  

[nic]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:10 PM, ZRod said:

Might want to read that article.

Did Twitter flag the the FBI and Department of energy reports as fake news?... I didn't hear about  that, yet... dang it.

[Dr. Strangelove]

20 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm still trying to figure out what the energy department has to do with this subject.

 

Seems to me to be like asking your mechanic why you have an irregular heartbeat.  

What kills me is that conservatives want the lab leak theory to be true.

 

But also this designed in a lab virus leaked by China is not as harmful as the Gubmint is making it out to be. And masks also don't work. But it's a totally synthetic killer released to disrupt American society. But also social distancing should've never happened and restaurants should've stayed open. 

 

I really appreciate Conservatives devotion to distrusting nearly everything (except for the people constantly grifting them) and their ability to create a bizarre story that tries to make sense of all the simultaneous beliefs they hold. 

[Archy1221]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

What kills me is that conservatives want the lab leak theory to be true.

 

But also this designed in a lab virus leaked by China is not as harmful as the Gubmint is making it out to be. And masks also don't work. But it's a totally synthetic killer released to disrupt American society. But also social distancing should've never happened and restaurants should've stayed open. 

 

I really appreciate Conservatives devotion to distrusting nearly everything (except for the people constantly grifting them) and their ability to create a bizarre story that tries to make sense of all the simultaneous beliefs they hold. 

Cool story bro, now back to reality.   
 

The lab leak theory doesn’t mean that the virus was created from nothing and released on purpose.   
 

The lab leak theory could be that China was doing gain of function research on coronavirus’ (they were by all accounts).  And the Covid-19 virus got out by accident and spread happened.  Possible and not disproven.  More likely than the very quick animal to human jump theory that can’t find a single animal host yet.  If someone finds a host and shows it jumped, then great, we have an answer.  
 

People who think the lab leak makes sense don’t give a rip on what they “want” to be true, they care about finding out how Covid-19 happened.  Unlike the animal host cult who has automatically discounted this option from the get go and not based on scientific evidence to say so.  

[Dr. Strangelove]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Cool story bro, now back to reality.   
 

The lab leak theory doesn’t mean that the virus was created from nothing and released on purpose.   
 

The lab leak theory could be that China was doing gain of function research on coronavirus’ (they were by all accounts).  And the Covid-19 virus got out by accident and spread happened.  Possible and not disproven.  More likely than the very quick animal to human jump theory that can’t find a single animal host yet.  If someone finds a host and shows it jumped, then great, we have an answer.  
 

People who think the lab leak makes sense don’t give a rip on what they “want” to be true, they care about finding out how Covid-19 happened.  Unlike the animal host cult who has automatically discounted this option from the get go and not based on scientific evidence to say so.  

While possible, and shouldn't be discounted - the point is really that Conservatives only believe scientic research that confirms their worldview and completely overlooks and discounts evidence to the contrary.

 

Scientific research on the efficacy of vaccines in saving lives is totally bunk. Or any research comparing death rates in Red America vs Blue America. But a research paper that gives a low confidence to lab leak confirms my distrust in institutions is obviously true. Do you give equal weight on institutions and research from the CDC, NIH or any other organizations belief - from the United States or elsewhere- that COVID19 was probably natural? No, because it doesn't confirm your priors. 

 

And speaking of reality, is climate change still not caused by human activity? Now that you seem to greet scientific findings with renewed vigor and authority, I'm wondering if you've come around.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Another perspective and it's more about perceived media  bias:

 

In the early days of the pandemic, when theories were flying and many were plausible if not proven, the news reportage made an effort to downplay the Chinese Lab theory for fear that it would stoke anti-Asian sentiment and violence in the U.S., and further prevent us from getting the information we needed from China. 

 

Pending conclusive evidence, it was probably the right call. Sound like a lot of theorizing is still taking place. And of course anti-Asian violence has soared anyway.

 

America has mostly been sheltered from the recent pandemics that have swept the rest of the world, as pandemics have done throughout history, which has long pre-dated human laboratories. Not sure we've learned anything from the experience yet. 

[knapplc]

25 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

In the early days of the pandemic, when theories were flying and many were plausible if not proven, the news reportage made an effort to downplay the Chinese Lab theory for fear that it would stoke anti-Asian sentiment and violence in the U.S., and further prevent us from getting the information we needed from China. 

 

Pending conclusive evidence, it was probably the right call. Sound like a lot of theorizing is still taking place. And of course anti-Asian violence has soared anyway.

 

This is it exactly. Orange Man Bad was stoking xenophobia amongst his supporters to distract from his wholly inadequate response to the pandemic (it'll be gone by April, etc). 

 

Of course that's all part of the ongoing culture war from the right. Politicize everything - EVERYTHING! Including masks! - to keep the base frothy and mad at the bad guys. 

[Scarlet]

Long thread which won't be ready by agenda bros but...

 

Quote

One piece of evidence that could change my mind would be conclusive proof that WIV possessed a progenitor of SARS-CoV-2.

 

This evidence doesn't exist. Claims of a progenitor at WIV are pure speculation & unsupported by evidence.

Quote

No progenitor virus = no reverse genetics or isolation
No reverse genetics or isolation = no virus in culture
No virus in culture = no infectious virus at all

No infectious virus = no lab leak.

Until a progenitor is identified it remains an unknown with most of the evidence and most scientists who deal in this realm theorizing the most likely source was the Wuhan wet market.  

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Long thread which won't be ready by agenda bros but...

 

Until a progenitor is identified it remains an unknown with most of the evidence and most scientists who deal in this realm theorizing the most likely source was the Wuhan wet market.  

 

Begone with your facts and logic! We're trying to froth over here! 

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Quote

 

Until a progenitor is identified it remains an unknown with most of the evidence and most scientists who deal in this realm theorizing the most likely source was the Wuhan wet market.

1) yet of the hundreds if not thousands of species tested, zero have been confirmed to host the virus.   
2) how many viruses in the past have made this instantaneous jump and replicate to the extent Covid -19 did? 
3) Any wonder why China won’t allow lab access?  

[ZRod]

3 hours ago, nic said:

Did Twitter flag the the FBI and Department of energy reports as fake news?... I didn't heard about  that, yet... dang it.

I'm sorry I just find it difficult to keep up with your latest airing of grievances. maybe a second Festives is in order?

 

Are you mad because you think the virus came from a lab? The DOE issued this latest release with a low confidence level, and there is still no consensus among US government agencies on the origin of the virus (and there won't be until China allows an independent investigation).

 

Are you mad that Twitter (who is a company and not a government agency), took steps to combat conspiracy theories and racism, even though there methods weren't perfect? I assume you are even more outraged at Desantis's Disney tactics if this is the case. Although Twitter is vastly different given that there was little to no information on the virus and it's origins when the implemented their misinformation policies.

 

Either way, I'm glad you've found more fodder for the outrage machine.