What is money/How to keep people afloat during a crisis

[Moiraine]

I'm not very knowledgeable about macroeconomics and this is basically just a train of thought.

 

I've thought occasionally about this stuff before our current predicament, but now I'm really thinking about it. We print currency on pieces of paper that have no worth except that we say they have worth, and now the rest of our currency is stored on computers. (Actually, the piece of paper we print our money on might be worth more now that we're out of TP).

Now that we're in a pandemic I keep thinking, we have enough food to feed everyone in the U.S. and we have enough energy to heat/cool our houses. Assuming the farmers, the people who ship food, and the people who work at power plants don't go on strike.

 

So what needs to happen to freeze everything for several months so we don't have mass homelessness and starvation? It seems those things shouldn't need to happen, except that we are dependent on currency. 

 

It seems to me we need to freeze utilities and rent payments, and cities need to freeze landlord and home ownership taxes, and somehow the fed needs to help the cities/states.

[JJ Husker]

It’s a nice thought but not realistic. It would cause a huge ripple effect over the whole economy. You’d have to make absolutely everything free and provided at no cost and there’s no way that could work. If you freeze rent you’ll have to freeze all the landlords (not our @Landlord) expenses. And say the HVAC needs to be fixed, who’s going to do that for free? Every possible avenue would stretch to everyone and then you have those who would abuse it. Just the necessities of utilities, housing, food, medical care...there would be no one untouched in some way.

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

It’s a nice thought but not realistic. It would cause a huge ripple effect over the whole economy. You’d have to make absolutely everything free and provided at no cost and there’s no way that could work. If you freeze rent you’ll have to freeze all the landlords (not our @Landlord) expenses. And say the HVAC needs to be fixed, who’s going to do that for free? Every possible avenue would stretch to everyone and then you have those who would abuse it. Just the necessities of utilities, housing, food, medical care...there would be no one untouched in some way.

 

 

I'm just thinking about the forecast that says 30% unemployment. We can't come at this thinking about what is normal. Landlords would not have to pay utilities either, or taxes. But then you'd have to figure out what to do with banks.

[JJ Husker]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I'm just thinking about the forecast that says 30% unemployment. We can't come at this thinking about what is normal. Landlords would not have to pay utilities either, or taxes. But then you'd have to figure out what to do with banks.

Unfortunately there is much more to consider. It doesn’t stop at the banks. Those dollars go into circulation and end up everywhere. If you don’t pay rent, does that mean mortgage payments also stop? And what about the people down the line that depend on that income to buy food, clothing....anything...everything?

 

As an example, you buy a hamburger at McDonalds. That pays the employees wages, food suppliers, packaging, utilities, etc. And just following the food supplier trail, that pays more wages, untold suppliers, ranchers....some of the items I build, and it all starts over and over again. I don’t have the answer but I do know this won’t work. The best you can hope for is targeted assistance from the government for those in need.

[Moiraine]

4 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

Unfortunately there is much more to consider. It doesn’t stop at the banks. Those dollars go into circulation and end up everywhere. If you don’t pay rent, does that mean mortgage payments also stop? And what about the people down the line that depend on that income to buy food, clothing....anything...everything?

 

As an example, you buy a hamburger at McDonalds. That pays the employees wages, food suppliers, packaging, utilities, etc. And just following the food supplier trail, that pays more wages, untold suppliers, ranchers....some of the items I build, and it all starts over and over again. I don’t have the answer but I do know this won’t work. The best you can hope for is targeted assistance from the government for those in need.

 

 

Said it in another thread, but food stamps need to be expanded and easier/faster to get, at least temporarily. They could have a temporary change thru the rest of 2020. I think people losing houses and apts might bend up being a bigger deal though. Maybe cut more checks but have it for people with incomes < $40,000 next time, and a bigger amount, or more targeted in places hit the worst. I don't know.

[JJ Husker]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Said it in another thread, but food stamps need to be expanded and easier/faster to get, at least temporarily. They could have a temporary change thru the rest of 2020. I think people losing houses and apts might bend up being a bigger deal though. Maybe cut more checks but have it for people with incomes < $40,000 next time, and a bigger amount, or more targeted in places hit the worst. I don't know.

 

The couple things we can both be sure of is that it is going to be a huge sh#t sandwich and our government and representatives are not remotely equipped to handle it properly. I mean look how hard it was for them to cough up a measly $1200 and the acrobatics and BS that entailed. I don't mean to be Debbie Downer but a whole bunch of stuff (and people) are going to be completely effed for quite awhile.

[TGHusker]

13 hours ago, Moiraine said:

So what needs to happen to freeze everything for several months so we don't have mass homelessness and starvation? It seems those things shouldn't need to happen, except that we are dependent on currency. 

 

It seems to me we need to freeze utilities and rent payments, and cities need to freeze landlord and home ownership taxes, and somehow the fed needs to help the cities/states.

Reminds me of the old Biblical -Year of Jubilee - Everything was made to rest for a year. Debt was forgiven, land was idle (not sure if all or part- seems you still needed to grow food). Basically everyone went back to ground zero and got a fresh start.

[NUance]

22 hours ago, Moiraine said:

I'm not very knowledgeable about macroeconomics and this is basically just a train of thought.

 

I've thought occasionally about this stuff before our current predicament, but now I'm really thinking about it. We print currency on pieces of paper that have no worth except that we say they have worth, and now the rest of our currency is stored on computers. (Actually, the piece of paper we print our money on might be worth more now that we're out of TP).

Now that we're in a pandemic I keep thinking, we have enough food to feed everyone in the U.S. and we have enough energy to heat/cool our houses. Assuming the farmers, the people who ship food, and the people who work at power plants don't go on strike.

 

So what needs to happen to freeze everything for several months so we don't have mass homelessness and starvation? It seems those things shouldn't need to happen, except that we are dependent on currency. 

 

It seems to me we need to freeze utilities and rent payments, and cities need to freeze landlord and home ownership taxes, and somehow the fed needs to help the cities/states.

 

Are you campaigning for Bernie Sanders?  

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, NUance said:

Are you campaigning for Bernie Sanders?  

 

 

I'm thinking of the projection of 30% unemployed. I fear the country can't withstand that. It's not gonna be good for the other 70% either. We might have to do something extreme. France is doing something similar. They are keeping businesses afloat so they don't have to fire people.

[JJ Husker]

28 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I'm thinking of the projection of 30% unemployed. I fear the country can't withstand that. It's not gonna be good for the other 70% either. We might have to do something extreme. France is doing something similar. They are keeping businesses afloat so they don't have to fire people.

There definitely is going to need to be another huge spending bill, in addition to the CARES Act, to help stave off a severe depression and to get us to a point where recovery is even possible. I’d say one or two more similar Acts would be considered extreme. I don’t think anybody thinks that what they have done thus far will be near enough.

[teachercd]

23 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

There definitely is going to need to be another huge spending bill, in addition to the CARES Act, to help stave off a severe depression and to get us to a point where recovery is even possible. I’d say one or two more similar Acts would be considered extreme. I don’t think anybody thinks that what they have done thus far will be near enough.

Oh yeah, there will for sure be another round of stimulus checks and I am guessing (hoping really) that the D's and the R's can figure out that there needs to be a small business (only) bill that gets passed as well.

 

I also am interested to see which state will be the first to say "No property tax collection for the next 6 months" or something like that.

[Moiraine]

3 hours ago, teachercd said:

I also am interested to see which state will be the first to say "No property tax collection for the next 6 months" or something like that.

 

 

They would only be willing to do that if the fed has their back, and the fed will only have their back if the state voted for Trump in 2016 or the governor pretends they think he's a genius.