Will There Be a 2020 Football Season?

[Guy Chamberlin]

10 hours ago, Branno said:

 

I also couldn't find an example of someone on the moon suffering from a severe COVID related issue, what is your point? 

 

You keep saying we need to base our information on "current data" but that just doesn't exist for college athletes. I'm not sure if you noticed this or not, but they kind of canceled all college sports since March.

 

 

It's hypothetical that humans can't survive in the vacuum of space, should we start pushing people out of airlocks to test that? No. That would be insane. I just don't understand your inability to take information from one thing (increased infections/death in the overall population, COVID outbreaks in MLB) and apply it to another (college sports). 

 

Look man, I get that you want the football season to happen. I also would like nothing more. But it would be irresponsible for us to ignore the realities of the world and put athletes health in danger just so we can have something to watch on TV for 12 10 Saturdays in the fall.

 

It is a fact that when players are not put into a bubble that outbreaks are inevitable. We're seeing it in college football already and we're seeing it in MLB. We have nowhere near enough information regarding how severe these cases are, but that doesn't mean everything is alright. 

 

It is a fact that lingering heart, lung, and mental conditions occur in large numbers of "recovered" COVID patients of all ages.

 

What is not a fact? That any data or study shows it is safe to play football at any level. That is your opinion. There is a big difference between your opinion and a fact. Try bringing something new to this, this is getting boring.

 

I appreciate your diligence, research and POV, and agree with most of it, but I don't think anecdotal evidence should negate some of the points being made here. COVID deaths and hospitalizations are very low among the 18-34 demographic, and the surge in positive tests remains largely asymptomatic. The problem facing sports is largely the same problem facing bars, restaurants, concerts, churches and conventions -- big groups of people in close continuous contact. Remove the crowd of spectators and test your employees, and a sport could conceivably stay open the same way The Home Depot, Walgreens, Target and hundreds of other essential and non-essential businesses do.  Not sure everyone noticed the meat-packing plants, Amazon fulfillment centers and airlines that continue to operate with less scrutiny. 

 

Remove young athletes from the danger of playing football, and many will return to the house party and shared substance lifestyle that has fueled much of the post-Memorial Day coronavirus spike. 

 

The choices are difficult and the optics are really terrible, but as Undone suggests sooner or later we will have to decide on acceptable risk levels for life under COVID.  At this point I can't begrudge anyone arguing for caution, or for trying to find ways to make this work.  That's just where we are. 

[kansas45]

27 minutes ago, Undone said:

Again though, I think it's really fair to go back to some of the ideas @teachercd posed several days ago - are these college kids going to sit in isolation all day/evening? Or are they going to go out and do what young people do?

 

My honest guess is the latter. Now this isn't necessarily some kind of trump card where we then say "well it doesn't matter so let's just have the season." 

But I do think it puts some of these comments in context where people are practically - not literally - but practically saying "You're all monsters for suggesting we'd continue on with the season because one of these kids could die!"

 

Have you all seen a group of elementary aged school children? If there is no recess, they will eat their arms off. And really, sitting in isolation is no different than solidarity confinement in prison. 

 

You think there is a bunch of us saying you are all monsters for some person possibly dying from this? Wait till the media outrage machine comes unhinged when a bunch of student-athletes or students in general come unhinged in a dorm and start screaming "monsters!!!" for causing mental health issues. Some student-athlete somewhere is simply going to blow a cork. And you all know good and well that they will sneak in marijuana and booze...oh and let's not forget the girls, oh the girls, these young men will try to sneak in. You would have to make this dorm bubble no different than a SuperMax with concertina wire and a guard houses with .50 caliber machine guns and armed guards with billy sticks patrolling around with inmate counts every 2 hours so we can play Michigan State for this to remotely work. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Not one of the kids that I have seen/spoke with, that just graduated and are heading off to college have even remotely hinted that they are going to socially distance or wear masks.  If anything it has been the opposite.  They talk about meeting new people and hanging out with new friends.

 

Here is a policy from a school in the Midwest that I received from a colleague asking me what I thought of it. I told him where they get people is at the 2000 word essay with a grade of B or higher. I would ask "what is the topic?" But let me guess "how I was wrong and should have known better and will not do it again." Sounds Orwellian to me. The Mask is Freedom. 

 

With this commitment in mind  we would like to make clear to students that when you check-in to campus, you are agreeing to follow campus guidelines regarding social distancing and procedures for quarantine. If you do not follow these guidelines you are subject to the disciplinary processes outlined in the student handbook. In particular, if a student arrives to campus and violates well-documented campus policies for implementing a 14 day quarantine they will be subject to the following consequences:

• For a first violation, the student in question will be required to complete 100 hours of community service, pay a $250.00 fine, and complete a 2,000 word essay with the equivalent of a B or higher before being allowed to participate in any co-curricular activity.
• For a second violation the student will be suspended for the remainder of the Fall academic term.
• For a third violation in which the student returns to campus during their suspension, the student in question will be subject to expulsion .

 

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, kansas45 said:

 

Have you all seen a group of elementary aged school children? If there is no recess, they will eat their arms off. And really, sitting in isolation is no different than solidarity confinement in prison. 

 

You think there is a bunch of us saying you are all monsters for some person possibly dying from this? Wait till the media outrage machine comes unhinged when a bunch of student-athletes or students in general come unhinged in a dorm and start screaming "monsters!!!" for causing mental health issues. Some student-athlete somewhere is simply going to blow a cork. And you all know good and well that they will sneak in marijuana and booze...oh and let's not forget the girls, oh the girls, these young men will try to sneak in. You would have to make this dorm bubble no different than a SuperMax with concertina wire and a guard houses with .50 caliber machine guns and armed guards with billy sticks patrolling around with inmate counts every 2 hours so we can play Michigan State for this to remotely work. 

 

 

 

Here is a policy from a school in the Midwest that I received from a colleague asking me what I thought of it. I told him where they get people is at the 2000 word essay with a grade of B or higher. I would ask "what is the topic?" But let me guess "how I was wrong and should have known better and will not do it again." Sounds Orwellian to me. The Mask is Freedom. 

 

With this commitment in mind  we would like to make clear to students that when you check-in to campus, you are agreeing to follow campus guidelines regarding social distancing and procedures for quarantine. If you do not follow these guidelines you are subject to the disciplinary processes outlined in the student handbook. In particular, if a student arrives to campus and violates well-documented campus policies for implementing a 14 day quarantine they will be subject to the following consequences:

• For a first violation, the student in question will be required to complete 100 hours of community service, pay a $250.00 fine, and complete a 2,000 word essay with the equivalent of a B or higher before being allowed to participate in any co-curricular activity.
• For a second violation the student will be suspended for the remainder of the Fall academic term.
• For a third violation in which the student returns to campus during their suspension, the student in question will be subject to expulsion .

 

Good lord! 

 

The campus stuff they can regulate, but, off campus is where the issues will be.

[hunter49]

8 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Good lord! 

 

The campus stuff they can regulate, but, off campus is where the issues will be.

this is grade A bulls#!t. screw college, let them go broke, they will be begging for students next year.

[FrantzHardySwag]

St Louis Cardinals have an additional 4-6 positive tests this morning. If numbers continue to go up, I wouldn't be surprised to see MLB cancel and that would be bad news for CFB and NFL. I'd guess NFL would look hard about moving to a bubble system. So far the NBA, NHL, MLS and MLB have seemed to show it's bubble or bust. 

[teachercd]

37 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

St Louis Cardinals have an additional 4-6 positive tests this morning. If numbers continue to go up, I wouldn't be surprised to see MLB cancel and that would be bad news for CFB and NFL. I'd guess NFL would look hard about moving to a bubble system. So far the NBA, NHL, MLS and MLB have seemed to show it's bubble or bust. 

Yeah, it seems like that makes the most sense.  

[kansas45]

Here is something interesting about sports and transmission of covid.

 

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/29547813/how-sports-coronavirus-hygiene-mix-spit-snot-rockets-licking-return-play

 

 

[WyoHusker56]

43 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

St Louis Cardinals have an additional 4-6 positive tests this morning. If numbers continue to go up, I wouldn't be surprised to see MLB cancel and that would be bad news for CFB and NFL. I'd guess NFL would look hard about moving to a bubble system. So far the NBA, NHL, MLS and MLB have seemed to show it's bubble or bust. 

 

Ya and Lorenzo Cain bailed on the rest of the season. That'll be the next domino star players start to bail and it makes it hard to keep going. 

[kansas45]

6 minutes ago, WyoHusker56 said:

Ya and Lorenzo Cain bailed on the rest of the season. That'll be the next domino star players start to bail and it makes it hard to keep going. 

 

Rumblings are beginning to happen. Media outrage machine is starting is moving to

DEFCON 3

ROUND HOUSE

Media ready to mobilize in 15 minutes

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/sec-players-express-concerns-with-officials-over-college-football-season-amid-covid-19-pandemic/ 

"There are going to be outbreaks," an unidentified official whom the SEC would not identify afterward told players on the call. "We're going to have cases on every single team in the SEC. That's a given. And we can't prevent it."

 

 

Another player, who was not identified during the call, asked about the long-term effects of players who contract the virus but recover. Marshall Crowther, a sports medicine physician at Ole Miss, answered, "the problem is a lot of this we don't know. Catherine O'Neal, a professor of medicine specializing in infectious diseases, said that young medical residents at her hospital who contracted the virus reported feeling exhausted for four to six weeks.

 

 

 

[Undone]

2 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

Thats not what he is saying at all though. If a kid goes out and gets COVID on his own no one is liable but that kid. Fair or not some responsibility will be put on the university, NCAA and college athletics for anything bad that happens as it pertains to COVID 19 if they play the season. 

 

Definitely true. Maybe in this sense an “opt-out” option would be good for players?

[Undone]

1 hour ago, kansas45 said:

 

You think there is a bunch of us saying you are all monsters for some person possibly dying from this?

 

Might have misunderstood me, not sure. I’m talking about people who say “let’s go ahead and play the season” being called monsters.

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, Undone said:

 

Again though, I think it's really fair to go back to some of the ideas @teachercd posed several days ago - are these college kids going to sit in isolation all day/evening? Or are they going to go out and do what young people do?

 

My honest guess is the latter. Now this isn't necessarily some kind of trump card where we then say "well it doesn't matter so let's just have the season." 

But I do think it puts some of these comments in context where people are practically - not literally - but practically saying "You're all monsters for suggesting we'd continue on with the season because one of these kids could die!"

 

 

Not saying I completely disagree with you, but one counterpoint to this is if there are players who would socially isolate, let's say 10% of them, it would be a lot easier to do that if they weren't forced to play football. And no, I don't mean literally forced, but if football is their dream there's going to be a huge amount of pressure on them to not go to their coaches and ask to sit out the season. If there is no football they're free to do what they want to stay healthy.

Edit: I see you just mentioned an opt out option. I still think most players would be too scared to do this even if they want to. Not just from coaches maybe not playing them but from other players saying they've abandoned the team.

[kansas45]

9 minutes ago, Undone said:

Might have misunderstood me, not sure. I’m talking about people who say “let’s go ahead and play the season” being called monsters.

 

My apologies and thanks for clarifying this. However, this will be one of the descriptions given by those in the media to paint a picture of those in charge who considered the aspect of profit over health and well-being of unpaid "students" for the entertainment value of the masses.

 

 

[Undone]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

I still think most players would be too scared to do this even if they want to. Not just from coaches maybe not playing them but from other players saying they've abandoned the team.

 

I agree.

 

In regards to my prediction of what will happen, I think that we’ll play *maybe* three games and then the season will get cancelled...if that. 

 

I’ve been anticipating the season being completely cancelled by about the the end of the third week in August since around the beginning of July.

[Undone]

1 hour ago, kansas45 said:

However, this will be one of the descriptions given by those in the media to paint a picture of those in charge who considered the aspect of profit over health and well-being of unpaid "students" for the entertainment value of the masses.

 

Agreed. Bob Costas’ comments have already ventured into that basic area code.