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6 minutes ago, Crusader Husker said:

Maybe I just in tired of all of this and I needed to vent.  Seriously, I feel better, but nothing has changed.

 

 

Nothing wrong with that. As much as many of us have a message of "IT'S NOT THAT HARD you're being asked to sacrifice very little" this is uncharted territory for pretty much all of us and we've all suffered in different ways from it. 

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23 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

@VectorVictor already got this and this isn't an attack on you, but that's what science is and that's what makes science useful and reliable. 

 

We build models that predict results, which are falsifiable, and then the predictions either are or aren't true, which results in the models being tweaked and through time and work and peer review and expertise, they end up the best possible knowledge attainable in the realm of things like deadly pathogens.

Is science useful? Yes

 

Is science reliable? Sometimes. 

 

A big reason you see people fighting it is because many portray science as unwavering FACTS. It is not facts, it is educated guesses. Like you said the variables change all the time thus changing the recommendations. All throughout history science has been proven wrong more times than they are proven right I would say. Because as time goes by they discover new variables. Just when they think they know all the variables they discover new ones which change the old "FACTS". 

 

I am not anti science. It has done many wonderful things in human history. But it is not the end all be all I would bet my life on. 

 

All that said I think masks do help, so the mask police can chill out. That is not why I am saying science is not facts.

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3 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Is science useful? Yes

 

Is science reliable? Sometimes. 

 

A big reason you see people fighting it is because many portray science as unwavering FACTS. It is not facts, it is educated guesses. Like you said the variables change all the time thus changing the recommendations. All throughout history science has been proven wrong more times than they are proven right I would say. Because as time goes by they discover new variables. Just when they think they know all the variables they discover new ones which change the old "FACTS". 

 

I am not anti science. It has done many wonderful things in human history. But it is not the end all be all I would bet my life on. 

 

All that said I think masks do help, so the mask police can chill out. That is not why I am saying science is not facts.

 

The process of discovery is sometimes messy and involves wrong turns. That's no reason to deride the process of discovery - which we define as science.

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1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

The process of discovery is sometimes messy and involves wrong turns. That's no reason to deride the process of discovery - which we define as science.

I have no problem with the process of discovery. I have a problem when someone states something as fact and ridicules others as if its blasphemy because science says so.

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5 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

I have no problem with the process of discovery. I have a problem when someone states something as fact and ridicules others as if its blasphemy because science says so.

 

So when someone says, based on the process of discovery, "You should wear a mask so we can have football," you have no problem with that?  Good to know. 

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6 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Is science useful? Yes

 

Is science reliable? Sometimes. 

 

A big reason you see people fighting it is because many portray science as unwavering FACTS. It is not facts, it is educated guesses. Like you said the variables change all the time thus changing the recommendations. All throughout history science has been proven wrong more times than they are proven right I would say. Because as time goes by they discover new variables. Just when they think they know all the variables they discover new ones which change the old "FACTS". 

 

I am not anti science. It has done many wonderful things in human history. But it is not the end all be all I would bet my life on. 

 

All that said I think masks do help, so the mask police can chill out. That is not why I am saying science is not facts.

 

 

Part of science is facts. In fact, the concept of 'fact' only exists because of philosophy and science. Part of science is also educated guesses, but you misrepresent the nature of the scientific method in a huge way by saying that "it" isn't facts but is guesses. 

 

Science has been proven wrong a lot because it's supposed to. The difference is that it's not dogmatic (with obvious human exceptions). Religious claims have been proven wrong, but dig their feet in deeper instead of growing and changing. Science is proven wrong and uses that to continue to get closer. 

 

'Many wonderful things in human history' includes essentially every physical luxury, tool, technology, entertainment, medicine and piece of knowledge that exists in the world today. Including this messageboard :lol: 

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2 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

I have no problem with the process of discovery. I have a problem when someone states something as fact and ridicules others as if its blasphemy because science says so.

My brother has his PHD, and does research in a very specific sector of engineering. He understands his specialty in a way 99.999% of the world could never understand. He's been wrong before, he's had theories that have proven to be off base. But at the end of the day he lives and breathes his sector, and he gets paid extremely good money to study his sector. There's a reason we listen to these people, they study this s#!t day in and day out - they went to School for this - they spend 75% of their waking life immersed in this s#!t. The experts understand this on a level, you and I will never understand. 

 

You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's a$$, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.

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8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

So when someone says, based on the process of discovery, "You should wear a mask so we can have football," you have no problem with that?  Good to know. 

Just see my earlier post about wasted conversations. You relate everything to masks and only masks. I assume you dream about masks at night.

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11 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Part of science is facts. In fact, the concept of 'fact' only exists because of philosophy and science. Part of science is also educated guesses, but you misrepresent the nature of the scientific method in a huge way by saying that "it" isn't facts but is guesses. 

 

Science has been proven wrong a lot because it's supposed to. The difference is that it's not dogmatic (with obvious human exceptions). Religious claims have been proven wrong, but dig their feet in deeper instead of growing and changing. Science is proven wrong and uses that to continue to get closer. 

 

'Many wonderful things in human history' includes essentially every physical luxury, tool, technology, entertainment, medicine and piece of knowledge that exists in the world today. Including this messageboard :lol: 

I would love to debate this further but I dont see it going anywhere and no one else wants to see us discuss science for the next 50 pages.

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27 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

But it is not the end all be all I would bet my life on. 

 

You do this EVERY DAY in more ways than you can count.

 

BTW, science is a method of systematic thought.  It cannot be wrong.  Conclusions, of course, can be incorrect and must be constantly scrutinized via, well, scientific method...

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4 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Just see my earlier post about wasted conversations. You relate everything to masks and only masks. I assume you dream about masks at night.

 

I'm relating it to what you're relating it to, vis-a-vis this thread. If you weren't talking about masks, what were you talking about?

 

Because - and this is a hilarious story that you're going to get a huge kick out of - masks have been shown to be effective at stopping the spread of this pandemic in its tracks. From country to country to country the world over. It's why medical experts in America are stressing them now.

 

l7AoyAW.gif

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3 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Isn't that going to be inevitable when we don't have a solid grasp on how to treat this particular virus?

 

I know changing tactics can be frustrating, but when it's being directed by experts (and not politicians) it's going to be for the best. 

 

Man, its almost like, gasp, FOOTBALL. As you learn how your opponent has game planned against you, you have to change what you are doing to find what works. --- I think we fired a few coaches pretty much because they couldn't adapt strategies to new information... Those who don't adapt to new information are destined for defeat. 

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