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11 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Are we still doing that thing where the hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters have not helped spike this thing?  Considering they are on top of each other, touching each other, grabbing each other.

 

It is still just the people that went out to an Applebees, right?

 

There is CHAZ

 

 

 

So far they have traced zero clusters to the protests. That doesn't mean that spread hasn't occurred there it just hasn't led to clusters. They have however traced clusters to things such as indoor weddings, restaurant gathers and other indoor events. This virus doesn't spread as well outside so the protests have less likelihood of causing infection compared to sitting inside at Applebees. For example, AC may help spread it inside.

 

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/

 

The moral of the story is the same though, just wear a mask and go about your life.

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1 minute ago, WyoHusker56 said:

 

So far they have traced zero clusters to the protests. That doesn't mean that spread hasn't occurred there it just hasn't led to clusters. They have however traced clusters to things such as indoor weddings, restaurant gathers and other indoor events. This virus doesn't spread as well outside so the protests have less likelihood of causing infection compared to sitting inside at Applebees. For example, AC may help spread it inside.

 

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/

 

The moral of the story is the same though, just wear a mask and go about your life.

Time to turn of the AC!!!  FREEDOM!  

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4 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

If there is no herd immunity and no vaccines, then what?   Our society is already in a grips of semi-panic, fear, civil riotous turmoil, deep seated hate, etc.  Arguably the society is on the verge of a mental breakdown.  More shutdowns, business failures, unprecedented unemployment, political insanity, growing homelessness, rising violent crime (shooting, looting, arson, assaults), are not going to help matters.  

 

I think far too many are overlooking all of these problems while mind locked on this virus.  

Wear a mask when you're out until enough people have gotten the virus or community spread has slowed enough for us to effective track and trace the virus. That way we can keep hospital census low, people can have elective procedures and we don't have to worry about hospital resources and staffing. 

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Just now, Jason Sitoke said:

Herd immunity is a ‘thing’ unequivocally. If nothing else, it is the reason a vaccine is being created. At some point, the relative immunity level of a group of people will be the dominant factor for determining whether an individual will get sick. Not sure how people can be saying ‘wait for a vaccine’ and also ‘no evidence of herd immunity’.  Not sure what we’re doing here if we don’t have an end game. 

At this point, let’s slow the spread and wear a mask. Protect your parents. All that good stuff. 

 

Sorry. I should have finished that sentence - "...it may turn out that herd immunity is a thing with this disease."

 

In general, clearly herd immunity exists.  It may be that getting this disease provides you with useful antibodies that prevent recurrences, and if so, that's great. But it may be that this is more like the flu (but not the flu!) in that you can get reinfected over and over.

 

The common cold is caused by coronaviruses (four of them) and we can't build herd immunity to those.

 

The vaccines are being developed because that's how we know to fight diseases like this. I'm guessing whatever they produce and use will be effective, but it's possible nothing works and this thing is just here.

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5 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

We can draw inferences based on historical precedence and other viruses including coronaviruses, but we don't have much if any evidence for covid-19 specifically.

 

Take a look at these article:

 

Yeah, I guess. But I ate a raw oyster the other day. Never had one before at this particular restaurant. Up until then, I had no evidence that I personally wouldn’t get sick from it. 
 

Or maybe I did have quite a good amount of circumstantial evidence from watching how other people do it before. 

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22 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

Agreed, but from a scientific approach, getting a vaccine or catching Covid-19 will accomplish the same.  The end result is a person with antibodies.

Wrong again.  Vaccines typically trigger a stronger antibody response so the end result is not the same.  Unless you're going to say my bank account is the same as Warren Buffet's.

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1 minute ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Yeah, I guess. But I ate a raw oyster the other day. Never had one before at this particular restaurant. Up until then, I had no evidence that I personally wouldn’t get sick from it. 
 

Or maybe I did have quite a good amount of circumstantial evidence from watching how other people do it before. 

Except in this case, it would be like if you watched people eat several types of raw oysters, and then you were given a different type of raw oyster that no one else had eaten yet. You have evidence about some oysters, but not the one you're about to eat.

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1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Sorry. I should have finished that sentence - "...it may turn out that herd immunity is a thing with this disease."

 

In general, clearly herd immunity exists.  It may be that getting this disease provides you with useful antibodies that prevent recurrences, and if so, that's great. But it may be that this is more like the flu (but not the flu!) in that you can get reinfected over and over.

 

The common cold is caused by coronaviruses (four of them) and we can't build herd immunity to those.

 

The vaccines are being developed because that's how we know to fight diseases like this. I'm guessing whatever they produce and use will be effective, but it's possible nothing works and this thing is just here.

Well you actually do not get reinfected by the same virus serotype twice, cold or flu. You can get exposed to a different strain and suffer symptoms again. Good news here (and I guess it depends on which news source you might trust) is that this virus appears to be mutating very slowly. Fauci said it himself when expressing hope for a vaccine soonish. 

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I think if the authorities announced today - Everybody wear a mask and its business as usual everywhere would make sense for most of us.  But thats not happening and no signs it will this year.  

Plenty of calls to return to shutdowns with no end in sight.  Many millions have lost life savings.  Now jobs are at risk of permanent loss.  Homes at risk.  etc etc.  Solutions for all these folks?   

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1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

Except in this case, it would be like if you watched people eat several types of raw oysters, and then you were given a different type of raw oyster that no one else had eaten yet. You have evidence about some oysters, but not the one you're about to eat.

Okay I was going respond by going further down the oyster analogy, but I’ll spare us all. We have suffered from Coronavirus for centuries.  Fauci has even said that there is a good reason to believe we obtain immunity as a result of infection and recovery. We have no verifiable evidence of a second infection in anyone (that I’m aware of), and if your secondary immune response didn’t teach itself to identify and kill the virus (T cells) then how would you recover in the 1st place?

 

Lots of circumstantial evidence there, but it adds up to a reasonable conclusion I think. 

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1 hour ago, onlyHskrfaninIL said:

That won't happen, people are inherently selfish.  And I do wear a mask as stated previously.  I think what we are living in is the 'new normal'.  Its just going to take awhile for people to get used to it.

 

I should have pointed out that that was a general "you", not directed at you, specifically. 

 

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1 hour ago, Hilltop said:

You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.  

 

There was/is absolutely mass fear.

 

Other nations don't have the same media coverage that we do.  In reality, we have no idea how Covid-19 is progressing around the world.

 

 

Just a couple steps you and 84HuskerLaw need to remember.

 

Global health experts were well aware of the coronavirus and its dangers -- even as the Chinese government was trying to suppress news of the outbreak in the early stages. They've studied pandemics all their lives and were waving red flags throughout January and February.

 

But there was no mass fear in America. Quite the opposite. Both political parties underplayed it, and so did the media. 

 

Other nations actually do have the same media coverage, and it has been a huge story in every country. Americans didn't share the concern until March when the numbers shot up and news footage showed makeshift morgues in New York and Europe. The American media and government had nothing to do with Japan postponing the 2020 Olympics — and think about the financial loss and logistics that went into that decision. I don't think the seriousness hit home with Americans until the NBA canceled its season minutes before Rudy Gobert was about to tip-off a game. 

 

We also have a pretty good idea how COVID-19 is progressing around the world. It's not perfect and there remains a lot we don't know, but the experts have been more right than they've been wrong, and we can learn from what other countries have been doing. Rule #1 seems to be not to overwhelm your healthcare system just because simple precautions are inconvenient. Everyone wants to re-open and a face-mask rebellion is only going to slow things down. 

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44 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Well you actually do not get reinfected by the same virus serotype twice, cold or flu.

This is incorrect. Immunity is not a simple yes/no.

 

Your body's immunity to a particular pathogen declines over time. For things like the common cold, your immunity goes away after weeks or months, so it's possible to get the same virus again the following year, or the year after. Other viruses can cause an immune response that lasts years or a lifetime like chicken pox and measles. And of course the immunity varies from one person to another.

 

This large variance in both effectiveness and longevity is why it's very difficult to say whether covid-19 will grant herd immunity. And why there hasn't been enough time to tell whether people will stay immune for weeks, months, or years.

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1 hour ago, Hilltop said:

Agreed, but from a scientific approach, getting a vaccine or catching Covid-19 will accomplish the same.  The end result is a person with antibodies.

 

I'm guessing most people will prefer the vaccine over catching COVID-19, but the vaccine isn't here and herd immunity hasn't yet been established. 

 

It's like a highly contagious common cold that's 5x deadlier than the common flu. In terms of pandemics, the world has had to suffer through much worse with fewer resources. Somewhere between panic and willful ignorance is a working solution. 

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