Progressive politics and where they go from here

[DevoHusker]

16 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I think what is neat for progressives at this point in time is the potential for what can get done under Biden.

 

No one realistically expects something like Medicare for All or free college to get passed with the composition of Congress being what it is. But it's an undeniable fact that Biden is running on the most progressive platform of all time when viewed in sum. Sure, it's not as progressive as Bernie or Warren's would have been.
 

But with Biden, you have his public perception as a moderate and a bipartisan dealmaker. Trump and co. are doing their damndest to paint Biden as some kind of hapless puppet of the left but no matter how hard they try, it's just not sticking. Biden's been around for too long and his perception is too baked in.

 

As someone very succinctly put it, we can "launder" a lot of progressive policies under a President Biden.

 

While I definitely cannot/would not be on board for a straight (AOC style) progressive platform, there are definitely inroads to be made from the current veer to the right. I think this is spot on.

[Guy Chamberlin]

8 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I think what is neat for progressives at this point in time is the potential for what can get done under Biden.

 

No one realistically expects something like Medicare for All or free college to get passed with the composition of Congress being what it is. But it's an undeniable fact that Biden is running on the most progressive platform of all time when viewed in sum. Sure, it's not as progressive as Bernie or Warren's would have been.
 

But with Biden, you have his public perception as a moderate and a bipartisan dealmaker. Trump and co. are doing their damndest to paint Biden as some kind of hapless puppet of the left but no matter how hard they try, it's just not sticking. Biden's been around for too long and his perception is too baked in.

 

As someone very succinctly put it, we can "launder" a lot of progressive policies under a President Biden.

 

I kinda agree. I think there was a genuine attempt to bring progressives into the tent after Biden secured the nomination, and by genuine I think they did the math and realized they would need their votes. Healthcare, criminal justice, education and the environment might well do better under a Biden administration than they would have under Obama or a theoretical Hillary administration, although nothing will be done remotely as big or radical as under Roosevelt or Kennedy/Johnson, who still enjoy status as Democrat standard bearers.

 

When Joe holds forth on police corruption by saying cops could shoot suspects in the leg instead of the back, assures Wall Street that nothing will change in his administration, or as he did just last week remind conservative critics that he still backs fracking, it does give you pause.

 

Sometimes you can build consensus from the middle of the road, sometimes you just get run over by a truck. 

[RedDenver]

28 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I think what is neat for progressives at this point in time is the potential for what can get done under Biden.

 

No one realistically expects something like Medicare for All or free college to get passed with the composition of Congress being what it is. But it's an undeniable fact that Biden is running on the most progressive platform of all time when viewed in sum. Sure, it's not as progressive as Bernie or Warren's would have been.
 

But with Biden, you have his public perception as a moderate and a bipartisan dealmaker. Trump and co. are doing their damndest to paint Biden as some kind of hapless puppet of the left but no matter how hard they try, it's just not sticking. Biden's been around for too long and his perception is too baked in.

 

As someone very succinctly put it, we can "launder" a lot of progressive policies under a President Biden.

I like your optimism, but Biden is opposed to doing anything on the progressive agenda.

 

The only way forward for progressive policies is to continue voting out the corporatist Dems. Have to make the political price too high for the current policies to continue.

[deedsker]

28 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I like your optimism, but Biden is opposed to doing anything on the progressive agenda.

 

The only way forward for progressive policies is to continue voting out the corporatist Dems. Have to make the political price too high for the current policies to continue.

We are barely trying to keep the Fascists out of the White House, let alone "actually" fixing things. We are a long way off from real reform that makes our country cleaner, better for most people, and safer.

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, deedsker said:

We are barely trying to keep the Fascists out of the White House, let alone "actually" fixing things. We are a long way off from real reform that makes our country cleaner, better for most people, and safer.

IMO if the Dems set the bar super low at "we're not fascists", then the country will continue to move to the right. Beating Trump is the bare minimum of what the Dems need to do. If they can't do anything useful with Biden in the WH, then another right-winger will win in 2024 as people continue to look for real change.

[FrantzHardySwag]

42 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

but Biden is opposed to doing anything on the progressive agenda.

- 2 Trillion into Clean Energy

- Increased access to child care through tax credits

- End child separation at the border/easier path to citizenship 

- Raise Minimum Wage

- Free two years of college

- Expand ACA

- Require Background checks

- Decriminalize Marijuana

 

Expanded healthcare, decreased cost of schooling, investment into clean energy, higher minimum wage, decriminalize weed - I wouldn't  say he's opposed to doing anything on the progressive agenda. 

[deedsker]

37 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

IMO if the Dems set the bar super low at "we're not fascists", then the country will continue to move to the right. Beating Trump is the bare minimum of what the Dems need to do. If they can't do anything useful with Biden in the WH, then another right-winger will win in 2024 as people continue to look for real change.

I am with you, but Biden feels like the lowest of bars. We have been dead ahead on moving "right" basically since the 90's. 

[RedDenver]

30 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

- 2 Trillion into Clean Energy

- Increased access to child care through tax credits

- End child separation at the border/easier path to citizenship 

- Raise Minimum Wage

- Free two years of college

- Expand ACA

- Require Background checks

- Decriminalize Marijuana

 

Expanded healthcare, decreased cost of schooling, investment into clean energy, higher minimum wage, decriminalize weed - I wouldn't  say he's opposed to doing anything on the progressive agenda. 

Biden came out recently and said he's opposed to legalizing marijuana. The people who need child care the most are the poor and middle class, which aren't going to benefit much from tax credits. The rest is just campaign fodder IMO much like Obama. That's modern governance in America.

 

The proof will be in the pudding come the 2024 campaigns. And then I expect I'll again hear about how I have to vote Dem because the Repubs are so awful, despite the fact Biden and the Dems will have accomplished little to nothing. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I've seen this song and dance play out every single time.

[Guy Chamberlin]

3 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Biden came out recently and said he's opposed to legalizing marijuana. The people who need child care the most are the poor and middle class, which aren't going to benefit much from tax credits. The rest is just campaign fodder IMO much like Obama. That's modern governance in America.

 

The proof will be in the pudding come the 2024 campaigns. And then I expect I'll again hear about how I have to vote Dem because the Repubs are so awful, despite the fact Biden and the Dems will have accomplished little to nothing. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I've seen this song and dance play out every single time.

 

Honestly, Barack Obama lost me when he started naming his cabinet, and I realized Hope and Change was going to remain just a slogan. I knew Hillary Clinton was vastly preferable to Donald Trump, but.....why did it have to be Hillary? And now at the most pivotal moment in our lifetimes, needing to energize the generation that will inherit our mess, the inclusive and dynamic Democrats huddle around Joe Biden, based only on the hunch that his moderation won't scare away people who had no intention of voting Democrat anyway. 

 

Again, every progressive I know will vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. The understanding is that Biden is more likable than Hillary, and Donald Trump is even worse than he was in 2016, but if that doesn't translate into Democratic victory the DNC will have to do the soul-searching. Not the progressives. They should probably do some soul searching if they win, too, but I'm not betting on it. 

[Danny Bateman]

I for one am perfectly fine if progressives mantra in the Biden tent is "Not good enough."

That's kind of the role they're supposed to play regardless, no?

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Honestly, Barack Obama lost me when he started naming his cabinet, and I realized Hope and Change was going to remain just a slogan. I knew Hillary Clinton was vastly preferable to Donald Trump, but.....why did it have to be Hillary? And now at the most pivotal moment in our lifetimes, needing to energize the generation that will inherit our mess, the inclusive and dynamic Democrats huddle around Joe Biden, based only on the hunch that his moderation won't scare away people who had no intention of voting Democrat anyway. 

 

Again, every progressive I know will vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. The understanding is that Biden is more likable than Hillary, and Donald Trump is even worse than he was in 2016, but if that doesn't translate into Democratic victory the DNC will have to do the soul-searching. Not the progressives. They should probably do some soul searching if they win, too, but I'm not betting on it. 

I completely agree.

 

9 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I for one am perfectly fine if progressives mantra in the Biden tent is "Not good enough."

That's kind of the role they're supposed to play regardless, no?

It's a good point. But if that doesn't translate into Biden and the Dems doing better (and I don't think it will), then apathy and disillusionment will set in and that will cost the Dems going forward.

[RedDenver]

 

[Moiraine]

On 9/3/2020 at 12:21 PM, RedDenver said:

Biden came out recently and said he's opposed to legalizing marijuana. The people who need child care the most are the poor and middle class, which aren't going to benefit much from tax credits. The rest is just campaign fodder IMO much like Obama. That's modern governance in America.

 

The proof will be in the pudding come the 2024 campaigns. And then I expect I'll again hear about how I have to vote Dem because the Repubs are so awful, despite the fact Biden and the Dems will have accomplished little to nothing. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I've seen this song and dance play out every single time.

 

 

I feel the time to get a progressive president was 2016 or 2020. I feel in 2024 Democrats will feel even more they have to have a moderate to ward off whatever "normal" Republican the GOP tries to put forward. That is if Biden really doesn't stay (I think he will stay). If Biden doesn't stay I feel Harris is a shoe in for the nomination. Then when 2032 comes around maybe a progressive will have a chance but these things seem to swing so the people who forgot what a f#&%ing disaster Trump was or won't admit it will want "change" and the "change" they will want will be a Republican.

It's amazing people fall for the "socialist" "communist" moderate and right talking points still and then complain about things not getting better or even getting worse. 

[teachercd]

Well, I know I don't want to pay more taxes so hopefully they can be super progressive about finding ways to lower taxes.

 

Being an educator and literally shaping our future, I should not have to income tax at all.  Now THAT is progressive. 

 

 

Right?  Come on, get on board!

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

 

Why the Holy f#&% does he come out with this now instead of after Biden wins?  Sometimes life just leaves me banging my head against the wall. 

Just shut up Bernie for at least a month.