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The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct


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2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Question,  was there any looting or destruction of anything before the police started using teargas and rubber bullets?

I've been trying to figure that out as well but can't find a timeline of events for those things. When the police chose to start using tear gas and rubber bullets is very important to understand how events unfolded.

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43 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Yeah, I guess...but clearly those cops are stressed the f#&% out.  That reporter didn't need to be on top of them.  My freaking iPhone can zoom in for video with ease, I am sure his crew can too.  

 

Here is my thought on jobs...don't make other peoples jobs harder than they need to be.   He wasn't really doing anything "wrong" but he also wasn't doing anything right.  

 

This sort of seems like a time when both sides should have used common sense.

 

I chalk this up to a big old nothing burger.

 

There's at least 6-8 feet between the camera and the line of officers, and the officers are the ones who move towards the reporter. 

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2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I've been trying to figure that out as well but can't find a timeline of events for those things. When the police chose to start using tear gas and rubber bullets is very important to understand how events unfolded.

Yes, because the MAGA crowd is going to claim..."look, the armed men who stormed into the Michigan capital building, weren't looting or destructing anything".  My answer would be, what would have they done if the police started teargassing them and shooting them with rubber bullets.

 

But, if the protesters were being violent and destructive before, it takes that argument out of being used.

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I'm all for looting the police district building honestly. It's horrifying, but burn it down. Even fine with Target going down. Wake up the powerful and the influential, especially those directly in conflict with justice and progress. The police have literal and representational/metaphorical blood not just on their hands but their entire existence. Target is insured. 

 

But small businesses and affordable housing getting burnt down is tragic and creates more lower class victims. A lot of people that show up in stuff like this are bad actors and opportunists though, who couldn't care about any cause or virtue other than what they want, and I refuse to define the entire things by them.

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4 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

There's at least 6-8 feet between the camera and the line of officers, and the officers are the ones who move towards the reporter. 

Man, I think that is even a bit close.

 

Like I said, seems like both could have done a better job.  Oh well, it the end it was nothing.

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31 minutes ago, Landlord said:

I'm all for looting the police district building honestly. It's horrifying, but burn it down. Even fine with Target going down. Wake up the powerful and the influential, especially those directly in conflict with justice and progress. The police have literal and representational/metaphorical blood not just on their hands but their entire existence. Target is insured. 

 

But small businesses and affordable housing getting burnt down is tragic and creates more lower class victims. A lot of people that show up in stuff like this are bad actors and opportunists though, who couldn't care about any cause or virtue other than what they want, and I refuse to define the entire things by them.

When taxes go up in that area to rebuild the police building and damage created what's your thoughts on the building being burnt down then?

 

You won't "define entire things by them" but you'll basically lump law enforcement together as a whole with "their entire existence" statement which is interesting, but not surprising at this point. 

 

Look what happened wasn't okay, I've said that and I'm happy that the officer has been charged, but to justify burning stuff to the ground makes little sense IMO. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. Looting and rioting is a poor way to get a point across. Just like putting a damn knee on the back of a guys neck and crushing the life out of him is a poor damn way to do your job as a police officer. Just saying.....

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26 minutes ago, Landlord said:

I'm all for looting the police district building honestly. It's horrifying, but burn it down. Even fine with Target going down. Wake up the powerful and the influential, especially those directly in conflict with justice and progress. The police have literal and representational/metaphorical blood not just on their hands but their entire existence. Target is insured. 

 

But small businesses and affordable housing getting burnt down is tragic and creates more lower class victims. A lot of people that show up in stuff like this are bad actors and opportunists though, who couldn't care about any cause or virtue other than what they want, and I refuse to define the entire things by them.

I don't agree with this.  But, I would rather them targeting a building than the police themselves when many of them weren't involved.

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Quote

 

609.195. Murder in the third degree

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

 

 

Without intent!?! Same charge as selling bad drugs!?! 

 

Maybe they're being conservative knowing juries are notorious for giving cops free reign to kill African Americans.

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7 minutes ago, BIGREDIOWAN said:

When taxes go up in that area to rebuild the police building and damage created what's your thoughts then on the building being burnt down then?

 

You won't "define entire things by them" but you'll basically lump law enforcement together as a whole with "their entire existence" statement which is interesting, but not surprising.

 

Look what happened wasn't okay, I've said that and I'm happy that the officer has been charged, but to justify burning stuff to the ground makes little sense IMO. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. Looting and rioting is a poor way to get a point across. Just like putting a damn knee on the back of a guys neck and crushing the life out of him is a poor damn way to do your job as a police officer. Just saying.....

 

 

I don't think all police officers are bad. Not even close. I know a decent handful of cops, all good at their jobs and good citizens.

 

But I don't know how you can disagree with a conclusion that policing practices and training need a fundamental reform. We've seen too much needless and tragic death by cop to ignore it. It's not just rogue bad apples, the system of law enforcement has turned into its own entity with its own emergent qualities which at the very least allows for a reality where someone unfit for the work can be in the job, do something like this, and too often escape with impunity. 

 

Also I don't like the rioting and looting, but I understand it. Entire generations of communities being silenced, harassed, abused, told that we're past all that, and ignored will only stay silent, take it in the teeth and take the high road for so long.

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45 minutes ago, Landlord said:

I'm all for looting the police district building honestly. It's horrifying, but burn it down. Even fine with Target going down. Wake up the powerful and the influential, especially those directly in conflict with justice and progress. The police have literal and representational/metaphorical blood not just on their hands but their entire existence. Target is insured. 

 

But small businesses and affordable housing getting burnt down is tragic and creates more lower class victims. A lot of people that show up in stuff like this are bad actors and opportunists though, who couldn't care about any cause or virtue other than what they want, and I refuse to define the entire things by them.

IMO this doesn't wake up anybody - it does more to harm the local community and peoples' livelihoods, people who had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. It takes away paychecks... the ability to pay rent or buy food. It perhaps forces people to apply for unemployment. It could raise taxes to repair the damage they caused.

 

Someone was also shot and killed during the riots. There's some speculation that this person 'may' have been involved in the looting but nothing concrete has come out yet.

 

And on top of all this, virtually all top officials have condemned this officers' actions including the governor and police chief. 

 

I understand the aggression that leads to rioting, too. And what happened to George Floyd was deplorable and inexcusable, but there are a lot of people suffering (and people who will suffer) as a result of the actions of a few. Most of the people being punished right now for Floyd's death had nothing to do with it.

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Yesterday, the prosecutor said, ""My job in the end is to prove he violated a criminal statute. And there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge."

 

Today, the same prosecutor charged third-degree murder.

 

It looks something woke up somebody.

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2 minutes ago, QMany said:

Yesterday, the prosecutor said, ""My job in the end is to prove he violated a criminal statute. And there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge."

 

Today, the same prosecutor charged third-degree murder.

 

It looks something woke up somebody.

Some of the rumor mill is that cause of death might be something else--although I dont know how anyone could say the officers actions didnt cause whatever caused death.

 

My guess is Gov. Walz made him speed things up. Even with murder charges, I still suspect major issues this weekend with looting.

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10 minutes ago, QMany said:

It looks something woke up somebody.

That's circumstantial at best, IMO. Protestors began blocking traffic at 4:30 p.m. Tuesday. Violent rioting and attacks on property began two hours later. That was three days ago. That was also the same day the officers were fired. Filing charges and investigating this kind of stuff rarely happens with the flip of a switch, so it's equally as likely that their opinion changed regardless of external factors.

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25 minutes ago, Enhance said:

IMO this doesn't wake up anybody - it does more to harm the local community and peoples' livelihoods, people who had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. It takes away paychecks... the ability to pay rent or buy food. It perhaps forces people to apply for unemployment. It could raise taxes to repair the damage they caused.

 

Someone was also shot and killed during the riots. There's some speculation that this person 'may' have been involved in the looting but nothing concrete has come out yet.

 

And on top of all this, virtually all top officials have condemned this officers' actions including the governor and police chief. 

 

I understand the aggression that leads to rioting, too. And what happened to George Floyd was deplorable and inexcusable, but there are a lot of people suffering (and people who will suffer) as a result of the actions of a few. Most of the people being punished right now for Floyd's death had nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

I agree with you pretty much Enhance, I guess I wasn't saying it as an endorsement or a belief that it's effective as an approach, but more that I totally understand the logic they're using and think it's probably a somewhat inevitable reaction.

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