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The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct


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1 hour ago, JJ Husker said:


Well, I liked the examples knapp gave a whole lot more than your video which obviously was pushing an anti-police anti-Trump agenda. Sure some of those interactions appeared a little more aggressive or unnecessary than any of us are comfortable with. But how many were taken out of context? How many didn’t show the mobs actions that led up to the moment force was used? The one thing they all did appear to have in common is large numbers of people who weren’t following lawful orders to move, leave certain areas or disperse. There is a very easy way to NOT have an altercation with police....do what you’re asked or told to do. Maybe even abide by legally issued curfews. Or, you can get in their face, push back and ignore their orders and you’ll get a result that guy can edit down and make another hit piece video out of. I’d feel pretty safe saying all of those people had numerous prior chances but they chose to press their luck.

 

I’m not claiming all cops are saints. That is obvious from incidents like the George Floyd deal or numerous others. The surest way to not garner almost unanimous agreement against the real problem is to conflate it with angry mobs not doing what reasonable law abiding citizens should do in those situations.

 

This country was founded by people who didn't follow lawful orders. Not every order is right or lawful because it came from the police.

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42 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

This country was founded by people who didn't follow lawful orders. Not every order is right or lawful because it came from the police.

 

I am able to recognize the difference between civil disobedience and actions that destroy and steal other people's property or unnecessarily put people's lives in danger. If you guys prefer virtual anarchy.....well, have fun with that. We can only hope the next rioting breaks out in your neighborhood or near your places of employment. I wonder if you would still be able to toss out these platitudes and nuggets of wisdom if it was your property, your livelihoods and your lives at risk?

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54 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I am able to recognize the difference between civil disobedience and actions that destroy and steal other people's property or unnecessarily put people's lives in danger. If you guys prefer virtual anarchy.....well, have fun with that. We can only hope the next rioting breaks out in your neighborhood or near your places of employment. I wonder if you would still be able to toss out these platitudes and nuggets of wisdom if it was your property, your livelihoods and your lives at risk?

 

 

The East India Company had their property stolen and destroyed.

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10 hours ago, JJ Husker said:


Good response. I try to provide context and truth and you employ hyperbole and rhetoric, apparently seeking to inflame a bad situation for all. Thanks?

 

And you are mistakenly (maybe?) referring to this news reporter as protester. I know it’s hard to tell since the actual protesters retreated while whiner guy remained at the front of the line against the police. Is it so difficult to figure out why he got gassed and hit (allegedly) with a rubber bullet? It strikes me as a lot less about reporting on the situation and more about trying to become the story.

 

I appreciate your belligerent perspective In this thread, even if I disagree with you on a lot of your takes.

 

Since the conversation eventually spiraled into what can be done better... I mean, I would hope our police would have the mental fortitude to realize that freaking MSNBC reporters and other media members out reporting on events are not the problem. They’re not looting, they’re not lighting s#!t ablaze or vandalizing it. They’re working for the benefit of the rest of us.

 

If all they’re guilty of is being somewhere an officer doesn’t want them, then firing rubber bullets right at them or throwing them to the ground and macing them is not an appropriate response. Escort them where TF you want them, don’t attack them FFS.

 

It all goes back to the expectation needing to be using the minimum necessary amount of force and prioritizing de-escalation, IMO.

 

Trump’s whole “rough em up and f#&% the media” shtick has not been helpful in this regard.

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5 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Fantastic job.

 

 

 

If you want a good Exhibit A on how cancerous twitter 'culture' is, look at the replies to that photo. Not a single person on both sides of the political spectrum with anything other than criticism and venom in response to this moment.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I am able to recognize the difference between civil disobedience and actions that destroy and steal other people's property or unnecessarily put people's lives in danger. 

 

You say you can make this distinction, but just a bit before this you put the onus of blame on protestors for the cops stealing their water, shoving over an elderly man with a cane, etc. None of the videos referenced in that YT video had anyone vandalizing, looting, damaging property, or directly putting anyone in danger, but your response to it sounded more or less like, "well they had it coming"

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No idea what these kids did before the video started, but....this isn't a good look

 

Believe I saw the mayor of Atlanta say the two main cops in this video have already been fired.

 

 

 

 

 

The GoFundMe for both of them says the male is is being charged with eluding/flee police and driving without a license.

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"there wouldn't be a problem if it was peaceful"

 

uhh...

 

 

 

 

 

normal day in america with cops running over citizens with their SUVs and replacing stolen american flags with blue lives matter ones (that's illegal and technically treason but w/e)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This guy looks totally mentally stable and cool-headed :lol:

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

You say you can make this distinction, but just a bit before this you put the onus of blame on protestors for the cops stealing their water, shoving over an elderly man with a cane, etc. None of the videos referenced in that YT video had anyone vandalizing, looting, damaging property, or directly putting anyone in danger, but your response to it sounded more or less like, "well they had it coming"

 

Of course I don't condone or like shoving th elderly or stealing their water or some of the other things that were shown in that video. And yes, in many cases, the police escalated the situation which is never good. But it seems many of you want peaceful riots. That would be nice but they are an oxymoron that does not exist. You can have a peaceful protest but not a riot.

 

Most everything I have witnessed began peacefully for a purpose and police were very reserved and non-aggressive. As the day wore on the crowds became more agitated, violent and destructive in most cases.  I don't appreciate the spin in the video RedD posted. It doesn't help anything to mischaracterize the situation. I believe that video did that in many cases. After hours of having bricks, rocks and bottles thrown at them, common sense tells me things might get a little ugly. Yet the video purports them to be unprovoked. I think that's bulls#!t. Those officers were there to control the crowds in the interest of preserving public and private property and people's health and well being. I'm not selfish enough to ask them to do that job without some allowance for natural human reactions. Of course they did some things I don't like but it was a bad situation. I believe many of them are inevitable when a protest turns into a riot. And yes sorry, but if a person places themselves in that situation then they risk the consequences. Every protest I saw was basically peaceful for many hours. And the cops also we're not aggressive for many hours. When crowds became agitated and more aggressive, it became necessary to disperse them. I don't believe the spin that the police just began firing unannounced. The crowds had been told and pleaded with. If a person was still there at that point, they cease being a peaceful protesters and are now in harm's way.

 

We all witnessed this crowd and control morphing repeatedly. It's what happens. It's to be expected. Blaming only the police for it is not helpful or realistic. It takes two to Tango.

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13 hours ago, RedDenver said:

knapplc gave some, but if the police needed to enforce a curfew or get people to disperse, they could try talking to the protesters and let them know they don't want to arrest them, but that they will. Then slow and meaningful escalation like start with tear gas without hitting people with the canisters. Make some arrests if people get belligerent. Save the rubber/pepper bullets as more of a last resort.

This is ultimately the right way to do things IMO. Several reporters I know in Omaha told me that this was essentially what authorities did last night - they gave clear, timely updates about curfew to the crowds protesting downtown. They kept reading off the time as it approached 8 p.m. and authorities requested everybody leave on or before that time. Some people left. For others, it was apparent they had no intention of being compliant.

 

From Omaha.com:

Quote

Jesus Arredondo Jr. said the protest was peaceful until police started moving in on protesters, shooting tear gas and what he said were flash-bang grenades.


He held a sign: “Justice for James. Justice for All.”

Erica Maurer of Omaha echoed the comments of others and said she was there in violation of the curfew because “you can’t put a time on this. We’ve followed the rules.

“I appreciate that police are trying to keep us safe,” she said, “but the majority of us are here to prove a point: Police accountability. You can’t leave when things get hard. We’ve tried that.”

 

I'm fine if people disagree with curfew, but the city is within its power to enact and enforce it, and they were given plenty of justification after the events of the previous two nights and the shooting death of someone Saturday night.

 

I think this just goes to show that there's a lot of right and wrong happening right now with the protests. I don't blame folks for wanting to prove a point and for being passionate about their stance, but at some point, there has to be a measure of order.

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I guess there are rumors of mass killings in DC. Everything went offline and black. Phones were jammed and natl guard had suppressors at the end of their guns. People that know some of the protestors have not heard from them since lst night, etc. Who knows how true these rumors are but I wouldnt doubt it since Trump apparently went into a bunker. Plus his rhetoric over the last few days. 
 

Edit: Anonymous is on the case and has found it to be a nothing burger. 
 

 

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