ZRod Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/30/2020 at 12:37 AM, BlitzFirst said: The fact that this person looked at black people instead of poor people shows just how bad the problem is. Poor people commit more crime...there just happens to be more poor black people due to systemic racism. They we're so close too. It was right there... Quote In 2019, police shot and killed 1,003 people in the US, according to the Washington Post’s Fatal Force database. Of those, 250 were black and 405 white. Police shot and killed 55 unarmed suspects, including 25 whites and 14 blacks. Black 20% chance of being shot and killed. White 40% chance Quote According to the US census, in July 2019, an estimated 328,239,523 people resided in the US. Blacks comprise 13.4%, or 43,984,096 people. But 72% of the US population identifies as white. So black people are disproportionately represented in fatal police shootings. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40546247 Over 20% of African American people are classified as living in poverty. Just over 8% of white people are in poverty. Also, this is no longer only a discussion about police killing people of color, but police violence against all people. *Edited for clarity. 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ZRod said: Black 20% chance of being shot and killed. White 40% chance Can you clarifying whether you're saying that because 1,000 were killed and 400 were White, White people have a 40% chance of getting killed by police? Maybe I missed a joke somewhere. Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Moiraine said: Can you clarifying whether you're saying that because 1,000 were killed and 400 were White, White people have a 40% chance of getting killed by police? Maybe I missed a joke somewhere. No joke. The article is saying that the number of black people killed by police is extraordinarily low (overall), so low that they imply it can't mean there is racial bias. It's true the number of people killed by police is rather low compared to things like automobile deaths, or heart disease. Just because the number is low doesn't prove anything about bias, as you well know. They later go on to give the percentage of people who are African American in the US. If you double back, that little fact about the demographics of the US makes the percent of black people killed by police look strange. They seem to be disproportionately represented in fatal shootings. Later they go on to say that people of color are more likely to live in Urban, high crime areas, and are therefore more likely to have negative encounters with police. But they never touch on why those areas are higher in crime. 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 2 hours ago, ZRod said: They we're so close too. It was right there... Black 20% chance of being shot and killed. White 40% chance 72% of the US population identifies as white. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40546247 Over 20% of African American people are classified as living in poverty. Just over 8% of white people are in poverty. Also, this is no longer only a discussion about police killing people of color, but police violence against all people. https://talkpoverty.org/basics/ 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 16 hours ago, BlitzFirst said: The fact that this person looked at black people instead of poor people shows just how bad the problem is. Poor people commit more crime...there just happens to be more poor black people due to systemic racism. https://talkpoverty.org/basics/ African American Poverty Rate: 20.8% (8.9 million people) Percentage of African Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018 Hispanic Poverty Rate: 17.6% (10.5 million people) Percentage of Hispanics who fell below the poverty line in 2018 White Poverty Rate: 8.1% (15.7 million people) Percentage of non-Hispanic Whites who fell below the poverty line in 2018 Native American Poverty Rate: 23.7% (600,000 people) Percentage of Native Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 40 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: https://talkpoverty.org/basics/ Same numbers I saw and linked to. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ZRod said: No joke. The article is saying that the number of black people killed by police is extraordinarily low (overall), so low that they imply it can't mean there is racial bias. It's true the number of people killed by police is rather low compared to things like automobile deaths, or heart disease. Just because the number is low doesn't prove anything about bias, as you well know. They later go on to give the percentage of people who are African American in the US. If you double back, that little fact about the demographics of the US makes the percent of black people killed by police look strange. They seem to be disproportionately represented in fatal shootings. Later they go on to say that people of color are more likely to live in Urban, high crime areas, and are therefore more likely to have negative encounters with police. But they never touch on why those areas are higher in crime. Gotcha, the wording made it confusing and made it sound like you were saying kind of the opposite of the point you're making here. The victims of police shootings are more likely to be White, but Blacks are more likely to be victims of police shootings. Link to comment
knapplc Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, DevoHusker said: https://talkpoverty.org/basics/ African American Poverty Rate: 20.8% (8.9 million people) Percentage of African Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018 Hispanic Poverty Rate: 17.6% (10.5 million people) Percentage of Hispanics who fell below the poverty line in 2018 White Poverty Rate: 8.1% (15.7 million people) Percentage of non-Hispanic Whites who fell below the poverty line in 2018 Native American Poverty Rate: 23.7% (600,000 people) Percentage of Native Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018 Why the hell does a country with our resources have upwards of 36 million people below the poverty level? That's ten percent of the population. 2 2 Link to comment
teachercd Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 What do they say the keys are to not being "poor" Brookings Institution whittled down a lot of analysis into three simple rules. You can avoid poverty by: 1. Graduating from high school. 2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married. (Or just don't have them at all...but that is from me...not Brookings) 3. Having a full-time job. 1 and 2 are pretty much controllable. Brookings gets railed at times for leaning left...But I don't really get how a research group can really lean all that much one way or the other. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, teachercd said: What do they say the keys are to not being "poor" Brookings Institution whittled down a lot of analysis into three simple rules. You can avoid poverty by: 1. Graduating from high school. 2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married. (Or just don't have them at all...but that is from me...not Brookings) 3. Having a full-time job. 1 and 2 are pretty much controllable. Brookings gets railed at times for leaning left...But I don't really get how a research group can really lean all that much one way or the other. They can be biased by deciding what to research and not research, or if they don't like the findings they can choose not to publish them. Or they could just do analyses that aren't technically wrong but are misleading or leave things out. I would say 1 is less controllable than 2 if you grow up in poverty. Hunger can have a big effect on how well you learn. Then if you aren't around many people who graduated high school it might seem less of a given which can be a de-motivator. Link to comment
teachercd Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Moiraine said: They can be biased by deciding what to research and not research, or if they don't like the findings they can choose not to publish them. Or they could just do analyses that aren't technically wrong but are misleading or leave things out. I would say 1 is less controllable than 2 if you grow up in poverty. Hunger can have a big effect on how well you learn. Then if you aren't around many people who graduated high school it might seem less of a given which can be a de-motivator. Oh sure, there are circumstances that come in to play. And it can be a do-motivator when in reality is should be a huge motivating factor, which sucks. And public schools offer free breakfast and lunch. I don't remember about after school snacks/meals though. Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, knapplc said: Why the hell does a country with our resources have upwards of 36 million people below the poverty level? That's ten percent of the population. Absolutely! 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, knapplc said: Why the hell does a country with our resources have upwards of 36 million people below the poverty level? That's ten percent of the population. I have to know to know how poverty rate is defined to decide whether this is bad or not. Because there is always going to be a bottom 10%. Does it mean they don't have enough food or can't afford shelter? Then I agree with your assessment. If it's just some arbitrary thing which means the poorest X % then it's hard to know what the goal should be. 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 27 minutes ago, Moiraine said: I have to know to know how poverty rate is defined to decide whether this is bad or not. Because there is always going to be a bottom 10%. Does it mean they don't have enough food or can't afford shelter? Then I agree with your assessment. If it's just some arbitrary thing which means the poorest X % then it's hard to know what the goal should be. The article provides the parameters it used for the definition Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, ZRod said: Same numbers I saw and linked to. so then you saw that there are actually twice as many whites living below the poverty line, but the percentage for Black's is much higher 1 Link to comment
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