The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct

[RedDenver]

14 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

He tried to stop him from getting in the car with the kids. 

The officer could have shot him without getting any closer. That's why it makes no sense.

[BigRedBuster]

6 hours ago, RedDenver said:

The officer could have shot him without getting any closer. That's why it makes no sense.

He tried stopping him without shooting him. So, you would be happier if he just shot him from 10 feet away?

[teachercd]

Not a gun guy, but is it hard to hit a moving target or slightly moving target, with a handgun from 10 -15 feet away?  Or is that an easy shot?

 

I feel like it is harder than people think, but maybe not.

[RedDenver]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

He tried stopping him without shooting him. So, you would be happier if he just shot him from 10 feet away?

How did the officer try stopping him? The officer closed the distance and then shot him in the back. If the officer thought he had a knife, it makes no sense to do that.

[ZRod]

6 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

How did the officer try stopping him? The officer closed the distance and then shot him in the back. If the officer thought he had a knife, it makes no sense to do that.

He was tased and they had him on the ground earlier, but he escaped.

[RedDenver]

Just now, ZRod said:

He was tased and they had him on the ground earlier, but he escaped.

That was all before what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the officer who shot him in the back. He was about 10ish feet away but then closed the distance before shooting.

 

There's a lot of discussion that the officers thought he had a knife. But if the officer who shot him thought he had a knife, it makes no sense to get closer before shooting.

 

Basically this is the decision that doesn't make sense:

You're the officer who has tried tasing the suspect and whatever else happened before. You think the suspect has a knife. Do you:

A) Shooting the suspect from 10 feet away where you can't be stabbed.

B) Get close before shooting the suspect, which gives the suspect a chance to stab you.

[teachercd]

6 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

That was all before what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the officer who shot him in the back. He was about 10ish feet away but then closed the distance before shooting.

 

There's a lot of discussion that the officers thought he had a knife. But if the officer who shot him thought he had a knife, it makes no sense to get closer before shooting.

 

Basically this is the decision that doesn't make sense:

You're the officer who has tried tasing the suspect and whatever else happened before. You think the suspect has a knife. Do you:

A) Shooting the suspect from 10 feet away where you can't be stabbed.

B) Get close before shooting the suspect, which gives the suspect a chance to stab you.

This is just me...if I was going to shoot at someone and behind the person I was shooting at were kids...I would rather get closer.  Now, I don't know where the dudes kids were at...but that would be one thing I would consider.  

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

This is just me...if I was going to shoot at someone and behind the person I was shooting at were kids...I would rather get closer.  Now, I don't know where the dudes kids were at...but that would be one thing I would consider.  

Yes, that's a possible explanation that makes sense. But the suspect is standing and the top of the car comes to about his chest, so I'm not sure I buy that.

 

What makes the most sense to me is the officer doesn't think he has a knife, but something changes when he gets close. Sees the suspect reaching for the knife? Officer panics?

[teachercd]

32 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Yes, that's a possible explanation that makes sense. But the suspect is standing and the top of the car comes to about his chest, so I'm not sure I buy that.

 

What makes the most sense to me is the officer doesn't think he has a knife, but something changes when he gets close. Sees the suspect reaching for the knife? Officer panics?

Not sure...maybe he sees the kids in the car at that point and panics?  

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Enhance]

23 hours ago, teachercd said:

Not a gun guy, but is it hard to hit a moving target or slightly moving target, with a handgun from 10 -15 feet away?  Or is that an easy shot?

 

I feel like it is harder than people think, but maybe not.

Objectively speaking, I think the answer to the bolded is yes. I would also argue that just hitting a normal stationary target at center mass from that distance is difficult. I haven't shot a lot of guns in my life, but I remember the first time I ever shot a handgun that my aim was not as good as I thought it was going to be.

 

Police obviously train a lot to not only prepare physically but mentally for the use of their weapon, but I don't necessarily think that always correlates to a 'successful' weapon discharge. I know of a lot of officers who have never fired their duty weapon during their course of the work. 

[Enhance]

18 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Basically this is the decision that doesn't make sense:

You're the officer who has tried tasing the suspect and whatever else happened before. You think the suspect has a knife. Do you:

A) Shooting the suspect from 10 feet away where you can't be stabbed.

B) Get close before shooting the suspect, which gives the suspect a chance to stab you.

My complete hunch of a guess is that they would generally want to maintain a distance and shoot from a distance, which is why I agree that the decision doesn't make sense. About the only reason I could think that would cause an officer to close the distance before shooting is if there was genuine concern about shooting/hitting a bystander. There were tons of people in and around that situation that could've received collateral damage.

[RedDenver]

11 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Objectively speaking, I think the answer to the bolded is yes. I would also argue that just hitting a normal stationary target at center mass from that distance is difficult. I haven't shot a lot of guns in my life, but I remember the first time I ever shot a handgun that my aim was not as good as I thought it was going to be.

 

Police obviously train a lot to not only prepare physically but mentally for the use of their weapon, but I don't necessarily think that always correlates to a 'successful' weapon discharge. I know of a lot of officers who have never fired their duty weapon during their course of the work. 

I disagree with the bolded.10-15 feet is really close for shooting. I could easily hit a target from 10-15 feet, and I'm certainly not what you'd consider a good shot.

 

7 minutes ago, Enhance said:

My complete hunch of a guess is that they would generally want to maintain a distance and shoot from a distance, which is why I agree that the decision doesn't make sense. About the only reason I could think that would cause an officer to close the distance before shooting is if there was genuine concern about shooting/hitting a bystander. There were tons of people in and around that situation that could've received collateral damage.

I agree. Either officer didn't think the suspect had a knife or was getting close to minimize the chance of shooting a bystander. I can't think of another scenario that makes sense.

[Enhance]

Just now, RedDenver said:

I disagree with the bolded.10-15 feet is really close for shooting. I could easily hit a target from 10-15 feet, and I'm certainly not what you'd consider a good shot.

Fair enough. I think it really just comes down to your definition of 'difficult.' I've done target practice with people who couldn't hit a stationary painted target to save their life, regardless of the distance. I missed the target the first time I ever shot a gun and it was probably at a 15-20 foot distance. Throw in the emotions of a law enforcement situation (the anxiety, the unknown, the potential risk to life and property, the knowledge that pulling the trigger often means pulling it to kill) and it probably injects an exponential difficulty increase.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Fair enough. I think it really just comes down to your definition of 'difficult.' I've done target practice with people who couldn't hit a stationary painted target to save their life, regardless of the distance. I missed the target the first time I ever shot a gun and it was probably at a 15-20 foot distance. Throw in the emotions of a law enforcement situation (the anxiety, the unknown, the potential risk to life and property, the knowledge that pulling the trigger often means pulling it to kill) and it probably injects an exponential difficulty increase.

I guess it's possible that officer thinks he's a bad shot and would want to get closer than 10 feet, but if that's the case then that guy shouldn't have a firearm. Getting really close to a suspect that you intend to shoot is a great way to have your gun taken from you.

 

Getting closer due to bystanders I can understand, but worried about hitting the target from 10-15 feet I don't buy.