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The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct


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2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

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I know this has been discussed before, but stats like this leave out an obvious contributing factor. As your graph shows, AA make up approximately 13% of the US population. And, I am not trying to say that unjustified killings by police (any race) are okay...because they're not. 

 

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

 

Black perpetrators account for: 

40% of all weapons crimes

37% of all violent crimes

51% of all murders

53% off all robberies

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16 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I know this has been discussed before, but stats like this leave out an obvious contributing factor. As your graph shows, AA make up approximately 13% of the US population. And, I am not trying to say that unjustified killings by police (any race) are okay...because they're not. 

 

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

 

Black perpetrators account for: 

40% of all weapons crimes

37% of all violent crimes

51% of all murders

53% off all robberies

Yes, the uneven application of law enforcement is systemic at many levels.

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6 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Yes, the uneven application of law enforcement is systemic at many levels.

 

I have to ask you to explain that. So if you have provided counter statistics for the percentages I posted, previously, I apologize in advance. 

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8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm sure the statistics are correct. But why are they so heavily skewed against black people?

 

Maybe...crazy thought here...because black people commit more violent crime?  Lot's of folks on here go on about the Occam's Razor scrutiny regarding other topics. Maybe that works for this topic as well. 

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12 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

Thank you for those links. I agree that there are definitely inconsistencies regarding incarceration and sentencing. Those should be studied and changed for the better. But you cannot in good faith say that 13% of the population committing over 50% of homicides and other violent crime is completely a racism/systemic issue. 

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5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Maybe...crazy thought here...because black people commit more violent crime?  Lot's of folks on here go on about the Occam's Razor scrutiny regarding other topics. Maybe that works for this topic as well. 

 

I think you're getting a couple of topics mixed up. You're saying these stats are kosher because Blacks commit more violent crimes - but @RedDenver clearly states Blacks are more likely to be killed by police while unarmed.

 

Are you saying you have stats showing these violent crimes are being committed while these folks are unarmed? Or are you talking about two different sets of circumstances?

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2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Maybe...crazy thought here...because black people commit more violent crime? 

The question is - why do they commit more violent crime? As a race, why are they so disproportionately guilty of committing these crimes based on their contribution to the overall population?

 

People who want to point out these issues aren't exclusively trying to say that black people are treated unfairly. The real problem here is that this country spent hundreds of years straight dunking on African-Americans in just about as many conceivable ways as possible. And although we've come a long way in helping to make our society more equitable, we've come nowhere close to undoing the widespread damage that I think many African Americans are still trying to claw their way out of.

 

Many of them are born into poverty ridden, crime ridden situations. They live their lives surrounded by this abhorrent behavior, a lot of which has become culturally engrained. And then they commit crimes and we have a large percentage of Americans who just want to treat the symptoms (crime) rather than the disease itself.

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3 hours ago, RedDenver said:

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Looking at that reminded me of something.  Why isn't EVERYONE upset about police killings of civilians?

 

Instead, we have black people protesting it and one hell of a lot of white people mad the black people are protesting it.

 

That has never made sense to me.

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42 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I think you're getting a couple of topics mixed up. You're saying these stats are kosher because Blacks commit more violent crimes - but @RedDenver clearly states Blacks are more likely to be killed by police while unarmed.

 

Are you saying you have stats showing these violent crimes are being committed while these folks are unarmed? Or are you talking about two different sets of circumstances?

Look at @RedDenverchart again. It compares 2 different topics. One of those is unarmed killings.

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30 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Look at @RedDenverchart again. It compares 2 different topics. One of those is unarmed killings.

 

Yes, I looked at the chart. Why are you bringing up violent crime in a discussion of the disproportionate killing of unarmed Black people in light of that chart?

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20 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Yes, I looked at the chart. Why are you bringing up violent crime in a discussion of the disproportionate killing of unarmed Black people in light of that chart?

It was a stand alone chart containing information about black people being killed by police (not just unarmed) and alleges that it is in disproportionate amounts. I pointed out that one answer is likely that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime...hence the heightened numbers in Red's reference. If one group is responsible for 4 times the violent crime than their population in society it stands to reason.

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5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

It was a stand alone chart containing information about black people being killed by police (not just unarmed) and alleges that it is in disproportionate amounts. I pointed out that one answer is likely that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime...hence the heightened numbers in Red's reference. If one group is responsible for 4 times the violent crime than their population in society it stands to reason.

 

6 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

It was a stand alone chart containing information about black people being killed by police (not just unarmed) and alleges that it is in disproportionate amounts. I pointed out that one answer is likely that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime...hence the heightened numbers in Red's reference. If one group is responsible for 4 times the violent crime than their population in society it stands to reason.

You are going by police interactions and looking at that percentage which is the correct thing to do vs going by race and looking at that percentage (it skews the numbers ).   
 

There could be reasons that the overall police interactions percentage by race is skewed some.  However, it’s hard to believe the violent crime stats would be skewed very much by racist police behavior.  

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7 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

It was a stand alone chart containing information about black people being killed by police (not just unarmed) and alleges that it is in disproportionate amounts. I pointed out that one answer is likely that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime...hence the heightened numbers in Red's reference. If one group is responsible for 4 times the violent crime than their population in society it stands to reason.

 

RedDenver's chart shows that Black people account for 13% of the population, but 36% of all deaths from cops for unarmed people. Whether that same population commits more or less crime is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

You're mixing up statistics to try and arrive at a hypothesis.

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3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

RedDenver's chart shows that Black people account for 13% of the population, but 36% of all deaths from cops for unarmed people. Whether that same population commits more or less crime is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

You're mixing up statistics to try and arrive at a hypothesis.

If 13 percent commit over 50 percent of violent crime, they have 4 times more chance to negatively interact with police than their representative number. It has everything to do with the discussion, and you are using deflection rather than say that there is a factual correlation because it doesn't fit your narrative.

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