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So, I think that the short form explanation of the 'require warning before shooting' from the graph is a bit misleading on the surface. To add on to what @RedDenver was saying, the site goes on to provide this explanation, and it even says that Omaha has this in place as a policy:

 

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Before using a firearm in defense of self or others or to affect an arrest or prevent an escape, police officers will give loud verbal commands, if possible.

 

Based on that explanation, and given that Omaha has something in place, it doesn't seem like that outlandish of a policy.

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30 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Can't read the article because of the paywall, but the first sentence is just a race-baiting gem:  "George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist." The first paragraph goes on with the dog-whistle narrative that the concept of systemic police racism is largely an Obama-driven concept.

 

Of course, it isn't, and the issue of racial bias in our police forces dates back more than a century.  But leading with Obama gets the right in the correct frame of mind, so there you go.

 

Unfortunately, I can't rebut the article itself because I don't have a WSJ subscription.

 

What I can do is show other, well-researched pieces that show there is, in fact, a systemic issue in our judicial system, from the cops to the courts.

 

 

 

 

I can go on and on.

 

 

 

Does this study also break down the racial identity of the officer that engaged in each of those 100 million stops?

 

And, just by the sheer volume alone, 100 millions stops from a few State and Agencies over six years...should we not have an even larger problem that what is currently being debated? 

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5 minutes ago, Husker_Bohunk said:

And cops and cop apologists wonder why people hate them even after seeing the violence police perpetrate on peaceful protestors.

 

We all have the right to peaceably assemble and to bring our grievances to the  government. Videos like those above are prime examples of why I say FTP.

 

Police reform is badly needed but won't happen.

Thanks ma'am! That worked!

 

 

Just a quibble. While I am an active participant in this thread and believe we need police reform, I would also describe myself as a "cop apologist" in a lot of ways.

 

Much like the rioter/protester conflation, we have to be clear that we do not support bad cops. Those are FAR outweighed by the good cops. Those good cops need our vocal support now as much as ever.

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17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Just a quibble. While I am an active participant in this thread and believe we need police reform, I would also describe myself as a "cop apologist" in a lot of ways.

 

Much like the rioter/protester conflation, we have to be clear that we do not support bad cops. Those are FAR outweighed by the good cops. Those good cops need our vocal support now as much as ever.

I am not opposed to police reform at all. As long as the government does not control the police, we should be fine as citizens. However, my worry is that if this reform gets directed toward the bad cops and the good cops end up quitting/leaving. I am not saying that would happen it is just a worry of mine. 

 

I also consider myself a cop apologist, but I obviously do not overlook the fact that police have killed people. I put out the stats earlier that said 1099 people were killed by cops in 2019. Police departments need to reflect on their practices and see ways they can better train and get the officers to not use force on unarmed people. 

 

I believe you said it earlier Knapp that you could not imagine people wanting to be officers. My fear is that the good people who want to be officers will instead choose other professions and more bad officers would be hired. They have to hire somebody to do the job and so it makes it easier to potentially get hired down the road as a cop. And I agree that the good cops need our support now.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Husker_Bohunk said:

When we see "good cops" arresting "bad cops" then we'll have good ones. When the good ones start stepping up and stopping other cops from doing bad things, then we'll have good ones.

 

When things like professional courtesy stop, then we'll have good cops. I could go on and on but I think you see what I'm getting at.

 

I very much do. And I don't disagree with what you're saying. I get the point that good cops need to speak out against bad cops as a matter of regular course (and recently this has happened, a lot), but that doesn't mean it isn't easy, or isn't career suicide.

 

The biggest problem is in the upper ranks. It takes one bad cop to make one bad arrest. It takes one Lieutenant to make 20 bad cops, or one Captain to make a bad precinct. We gotta weed those guys out first, then we're getting somewhere.

 

But I think the reality is that policing lends itself to abuse by nature, in that the kind of person who would abuse their badge is drawn to that kind of job. It's been like that since police became a thing however-many generations ago. I think we'll always have abusive cops, just like we'll always have good cops. We just gotta minimize the former while uplifting the latter.

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7 minutes ago, BIGREDIOWAN said:

I read that as "warning shot" so that's my bad. But officers are already instructed to shout verbal commands, when possible, about using deadly force, TASER, ASP, etc across the country so shouting commands is nothing new and earth shattering. 

The 8 can't wait feel like a bare minimum, so I'm not surprised some of this is already being done.

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33 minutes ago, BIGREDIOWAN said:

I read that as "warning shot" so that's my bad. But officers are already instructed to shout verbal commands, when possible, about using deadly force, TASER, ASP, etc across the country so shouting commands is nothing new and earth shattering. 

 

24 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The 8 can't wait feel like a bare minimum, so I'm not surprised some of this is already being done.

 

 

One thing I wondered is how they're calculating the % reduction they're touting. Seems like that would be extremely hard to calculate. (I haven't looked on the site so yet so I don't know if they attempt to explain it).

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6 Atlanta Officers Charged After Release Of 'Disturbing' Arrest Video

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Howard's office has filed charges — mostly assorted aggravated assault and battery counts — against a half-dozen officers involved in the arrest: Lonnie Hood, Willie Sauls, Ivory Streeter, Mark Gardner, Armond Jones and Roland Claud. Streeter and Gardner have been fired from the force since Saturday's confrontation, while three others have been placed on desk duty.

 

Howard said the charges are backed up by extensive interviews with the young couple, Taniyah Pilgrim and Messiah Young, as well as video evidence from bystanders and the officers' body camera footage.

 

 

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