Jump to content


Police Reform


Recommended Posts


Memphis.  At least we're getting proper charges now in many of these cases.  Gotta say I question in TN if there will be a fair outcome if it's a jury trial.

 

With as much work as they're doing today to try and let folks know how bad it is it must be shockingly terrible.  The head of the department there was on CNN with Don Lemon this am and gave a very candid interview.  If you didn't catch it try to.  Our nation is in a terrible spot.

  • TBH 2
Link to comment
7 hours ago, NM11046 said:

Memphis.  At least we're getting proper charges now in many of these cases.  Gotta say I question in TN if there will be a fair outcome if it's a jury trial.

 

With as much work as they're doing today to try and let folks know how bad it is it must be shockingly terrible.  The head of the department there was on CNN with Don Lemon this am and gave a very candid interview.  If you didn't catch it try to.  Our nation is in a terrible spot.

We are not in a terrible spot. That's alarmism and dishonesty by the media. This is what progress looks like. It's often slow, sometimes painful, but it moves us forward.

 

An awful thing happened and this man lost his life; but these people were put on leave, terminated, investigated, and ultimately charged in less than a month. That is exactly how we should expect the police, government, and judicial system to work.

  • Plus1 4
Link to comment
4 minutes ago, ZRod said:

We are not in a terrible spot. That's alarmism and dishonesty by the media. This is what progress looks like. It's often slow, sometimes painful, but it moves us forward.

 

An awful thing happened and this man lost his life; but these people were put on leave, terminated, investigated, and ultimately charged in less than a month. That is exactly how we should expect the police, government, and judicial system to work.

I don't think anyone really disagrees with you.  But, everyone is very concerned about rioting once the video is released.

Link to comment

33 minutes ago, ZRod said:

We are not in a terrible spot. That's alarmism and dishonesty by the media. This is what progress looks like. It's often slow, sometimes painful, but it moves us forward.

 

An awful thing happened and this man lost his life; but these people were put on leave, terminated, investigated, and ultimately charged in less than a month. That is exactly how we should expect the police, government, and judicial system to work.

The fact that just this week there have been I think 3 (?)  issues with police overstep leading to individuals' death leads me to think we're in a terrible spot.  I'm happy these 5 had immediate action taken but man, it was 92 when we saw a similar incident take place in CA and how little has changed, really we just have more and better cameras to catch it all.  Should progress on this issue really take 30+ years?  Do you really think that the trauma, harm and the systemic issues done by these folks in powerful positions is only bad cuz the media is telling us so?  Come on man.  There's nothing dishonest about a video that we're going to see tonight - THEY DID HARM TO THIS MAN KNOWING THAT THEY HAD THEIR OWN 5 CAMERAS ON AND RUNNING.  They didn't think it was going to be a problem.  That is the underlying issue.  Not that the right things happened by their superiors after they murdered a man.

  • Plus1 2
Link to comment
3 hours ago, NM11046 said:

The fact that just this week there have been I think 3 (?)  issues with police overstep leading to individuals' death leads me to think we're in a terrible spot.  I'm happy these 5 had immediate action taken but man, it was 92 when we saw a similar incident take place in CA and how little has changed, really we just have more and better cameras to catch it all.  Should progress on this issue really take 30+ years?  Do you really think that the trauma, harm and the systemic issues done by these folks in powerful positions is only bad cuz the media is telling us so?  Come on man.  There's nothing dishonest about a video that we're going to see tonight - THEY DID HARM TO THIS MAN KNOWING THAT THEY HAD THEIR OWN 5 CAMERAS ON AND RUNNING.  They didn't think it was going to be a problem.  That is the underlying issue.  Not that the right things happened by their superiors after they murdered a man.

You're missing the forest for the trees. As I said, progress is slow; the Emancipation Proclamation took place in 1863. The civil rights act came more than 100 years later and was the culmination of more than a decade of demonstration, protests, riots, and violence. Rodney King happened 28 years later. George Floyd was killed 28 years after that. Granted this isn't a racial issue, but the civil liberty aspect is the same.

 

Change takes time. There will be more deaths, as unfortunate as that is. There will probably be more riots. There will be more violations of civil rights and liberty, but a precedence was set in Minnesota, and this incident is proof that tides are moving the right direction. People need to be held accountable for there actions before anything different can happen. That is finally taking place. This is progress, however small, and however long it took.

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment
Just now, ZRod said:

You're missing the forest for the trees. As I said, progress is slow; the Emancipation Proclamation took place in 1863. The civil rights act came more than 100 years later and was the culmination of more than a decade of demonstration, protests, riots, and violence. Rodney King happened 28 years later. George Floyd was killed 28 years after that.

 

Change takes time. There will be more deaths, as unfortunate as that is. There will probably be more riots. There will be more violations of civil rights and liberty, but a precedence was set in Minnesota, and this incident is proof that tides are moving the right direction. People need to be held accountable for there actions before anything different can happen. This is progress, however small, and however long it took.

Thanks ZRod - in retroscpect I'm in a funk with all the news and violence today.  Just feels like people really suck.

  • Plus1 1
  • Fire 1
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Thanks ZRod - in retroscpect I'm in a funk with all the news and violence today.  Just feels like people really suck.

All good. There was at least something positive in this tragedy.

 

Turnoff Don Lemon though, he's as bad for your health as fox and friends 

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment

17 hours ago, ZRod said:

You're missing the forest for the trees. As I said, progress is slow; the Emancipation Proclamation took place in 1863. The civil rights act came more than 100 years later and was the culmination of more than a decade of demonstration, protests, riots, and violence. Rodney King happened 28 years later. George Floyd was killed 28 years after that. Granted this isn't a racial issue, but the civil liberty aspect is the same.

 

Change takes time. There will be more deaths, as unfortunate as that is. There will probably be more riots. There will be more violations of civil rights and liberty, but a precedence was set in Minnesota, and this incident is proof that tides are moving the right direction. People need to be held accountable for there actions before anything different can happen. That is finally taking place. This is progress, however small, and however long it took.

 

This sounds good and I can't argue with the intent, but it's also the same argument Martin Luther King Jr faced 60 years ago when he was asked to plead patience with the Black community.

 

For all the progress made, I think many people were shocked to learn the violent and deadly difference in the treatment of Black people by police 60 years later, a practice that got flushed out only by the ubiquity of cell phone cameras. Things really were worse than we thought, and these incidents aren't abating any faster than mass shootings. Getting convictions for police whose guilt is beyond question certainly counts as progress, but at the same time the pendulum swings to a Blue Lives Matter movement that tries to cast these as singular incidences, not systemic  ones, and tries to equate any criticism of the police as a leftist agenda that threatens the safety of good citizens. 

 

Not endorsing rioting here. Just saying the "be patient" message is a little insulting for the people in the thick of it, seeing s#!t everyday that doesn't make the news. 

 

There's also the fact that the law enforcement profession has been in a downturn the past couple decades and police departments have lowered standards to fill their ranks. This tends to attract more of the vigilante cowboy types, and when you give them a name like The Scorpion Unit and turn them loose in the part of town that ambulances are slow to serve, this kinda thing still happens. 

  • Plus1 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

This sounds good and I can't argue with the intent, but it's also the same argument Martin Luther King Jr faced 60 years ago when he was asked to plead patience with the Black community.

 

For all the progress made, I think many people were shocked to learn the violent and deadly difference in the treatment of Black people by police 60 years later, a practice that got flushed out only by the ubiquity of cell phone cameras. Things really were worse than we thought, and these incidents aren't abating any faster than mass shootings. Getting convictions for police whose guilt is beyond question certainly counts as progress, but at the same time the pendulum swings to a Blue Lives Matter movement that tries to cast these as singular incidences, not systemic  ones, and tries to equate any criticism of the police as a leftist agenda that threatens the safety of good citizens. 

 

Not endorsing rioting here. Just saying the "be patient" message is a little insulting for the people in the thick of it, seeing s#!t everyday that doesn't make the news. 

 

There's also the fact that the law enforcement profession has been in a downturn the past couple decades and police departments have lowered standards to fill their ranks. This tends to attract more of the vigilante cowboy types, and when you give them a name like The Scorpion Unit and turn them loose in the part of town that ambulances are slow to serve, this kinda thing still happens. 

I never said be patient. Infact the public shouldn't have to be patient. They deserve better now, but you have to be realistic. Things aren't going to happen overnight.

 

There is a common systemic and cultural problem in many police departments as you pointed out, but they're all separate agencies. Without federal legislation (which is not happening in the current environment), there's no way that any sweeping changes will be made quickly. 

Link to comment
56 minutes ago, ZRod said:

I never said be patient. Infact the public shouldn't have to be patient. They deserve better now, but you have to be realistic. Things aren't going to happen overnight.

 

There is a common systemic and cultural problem in many police departments as you pointed out, but they're all separate agencies. Without federal legislation (which is not happening in the current environment), there's no way that any sweeping changes will be made quickly. 

 

Well you claimed that we are not in a bad spot and any media suggestion otherwise is alarmist. I took you to mean that we should look at the progress already made to temper anger and expectations, but there's not a big difference between "being realistic" and "being patient" here. I think the last dozen years have been a step back, myself, in that they've revealed what's realistically been going on while we thought we were making progress. 

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment

There is unquestionably a serious problem in police departments. These 5 in Memphis are just another example. They made no attempt whatsoever to de-escalate this encounter but rather willingly escalated the situation to it’s sad and inevitable outcome. This is unacceptable and disgusting.

 

Having said that, I have a question that I’m sure I’ll get jumped on for. Why did Tyre, and virtually every young black man we see in these deals, not fully and willingly comply with their requests? He struggled, ran, yelled what did I do, failed to get on the ground himself, failed to get on his stomach as requested, and failed to give them his hands. It seems to me Tyre would likely be alive today if he was just more compliant. This is not to excuse the officers behavior in anyway but damn, help yourself out a bit and live to sort it out later.

 

IDK, maybe this is my naivety and white privilege speaking but it seems in most of these cases the victims could’ve easily helped themselves. And once again, this is in no way an excuse for what the officers did.

  • Thanks 1
  • TBH 2
Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...