Police Reform

[NM11046]

WHen I viewed it I saw him doing everything or trying to do everything he was asked ... but they still yelled it at him.  "GET DOWN" (he already was) as an ex.  "SHOW YOUR HANDS" (he couldn't because the guy's partners where holding his arms"

 

And I think the running from them will be the first thing the more "Back the Blue" folks will point to.  I guess I'd ask, what would you do if you were pulled over for no reason, pulled out of a car by 5 police (no lights used by the way which I thought was odd) and then tased?  For sure you'd ask what did I do and then anybody that is fearful of their lives would try to get away.  Fight or flight is a real thing when you are being brutalized by 5 men.

[JJ Husker]

25 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

WHen I viewed it I saw him doing everything or trying to do everything he was asked ... but they still yelled it at him.  "GET DOWN" (he already was) as an ex.  "SHOW YOUR HANDS" (he couldn't because the guy's partners where holding his arms"

 

And I think the running from them will be the first thing the more "Back the Blue" folks will point to.  I guess I'd ask, what would you do if you were pulled over for no reason, pulled out of a car by 5 police (no lights used by the way which I thought was odd) and then tased?  For sure you'd ask what did I do and then anybody that is fearful of their lives would try to get away.  Fight or flight is a real thing when you are being brutalized by 5 men.

Did you see the full encounter? The initial stop with only 1 or 2 officers, before there were 5 officers?

 

I’ve only seen bits and pieces but what I did see indicated to me he was not very compliant initially, before he ran.

 

It is no excuse for what did happen but I still believe he could’ve helped himself out and would likely still be alive today.

[NM11046]

I saw the whole things but I don't know that it was in order.  Seems like different agencies were publishing different tapes.

[Moiraine]

3 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Did you see the full encounter? The initial stop with only 1 or 2 officers, before there were 5 officers?

 

I’ve only seen bits and pieces but what I did see indicated to me he was not very compliant initially, before he ran.

 

It is no excuse for what did happen but I still believe he could’ve helped himself out and would likely still be alive today.

This is a message board so I don't think there is much harm in talking about these things, but it bothers me when it's brought up by politicians or the media. I don't think you intend anything negative by it but it really doesn't matter what he did. Once he is subdued the police need to stop harming him and not allow him to be harmed. Even if he tried to kill them beforehand, or did kill one of them beforehand, they can't beat the life out of him after he is under control.

[JJ Husker]

36 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

This is a message board so I don't think there is much harm in talking about these things, but it bothers me when it's brought up by politicians or the media. I don't think you intend anything negative by it but it really doesn't matter what he did. Once he is subdued the police need to stop harming in and not allow him to be harmed. Even if he tried to kill them beforehand, or did kill one of them beforehand, they can't beat the life out of him after he is under control.

I agree, and I prefaced my remarks and added disclaimers along the way. Tyre did nothing to cause this. But that is different, imo, than saying he could’ve done some things differently to help possibly  prevent it.

 

If I was a young black man or just a black person period, I would go out of my way to be compliant with every LEO request the way things are now. No that isn’t right and no it shouldn’t be that way but I’m pretty sure I could come out of similar encounters alive. I’d sure as heck be telling my kids to say yes sir, no sir, and to follow every instruction to the letter. That may not prevent a problem when the LEOs are hellbent to do some damage but I think it would go a long ways to diffusing most of these situations. When you run it just pisses them off more because they have to chase you. Unfortunately way too many police will start to behave much differently after any sign of resistance. I wouldn’t give them that opportunity.

 

But yeah, in the overarching picture, the police need to change.

[BigRedBuster]

Yes. It amazes me that in this day and age someone thought this was a good idea.  
 

 

[ZRod]

19 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well you claimed that we are not in a bad spot and any media suggestion otherwise is alarmist. I took you to mean that we should look at the progress already made to temper anger and expectations, but there's not a big difference between "being realistic" and "being patient" here. I think the last dozen years have been a step back, myself, in that they've revealed what's realistically been going on while we thought we were making progress. 

They are alarmist, that's their whole job these days. It's why I turned off CNN and even the news at 5 and 6. It's just garbage. If they wanted to do their job they'd report on how this case went differently, what other reforms the public wants to see, and how those are progressing.

 

I don't think you can really call it a step back when this has always been happening, it's just finally brought to light because of the plethora of small/convenient cameras available. I mean cops beating, stealing from, and harassing the public has been a theme for centuries. We finally live in a time where there is hard evidence of it, and it's no longer their word against the victim's.

[ZRod]

13 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I agree, and I prefaced my remarks and added disclaimers along the way. Tyre did nothing to cause this. But that is different, imo, than saying he could’ve done some things differently to help possibly  prevent it.

 

If I was a young black man or just a black person period, I would go out of my way to be compliant with every LEO request the way things are now. No that isn’t right and no it shouldn’t be that way but I’m pretty sure I could come out of similar encounters alive. I’d sure as heck be telling my kids to say yes sir, no sir, and to follow every instruction to the letter. That may not prevent a problem when the LEOs are hellbent to do some damage but I think it would go a long ways to diffusing most of these situations. When you run it just pisses them off more because they have to chase you. Unfortunately way too many police will start to behave much differently after any sign of resistance. I wouldn’t give them that opportunity.

 

But yeah, in the overarching picture, the police need to change.

I'm sure you're like me and personally know people who ran from the cops and weren't killed or beaten.

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, ZRod said:

I'm sure you're like me and personally know people who ran from the cops and weren't killed or beaten.

 

We had plenty of Friday nights like that as bored suburban teenagers in Lincoln, Nebraska. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, ZRod said:

They are alarmist, that's their whole job these days. It's why I turned off CNN and even the news at 5 and 6. It's just garbage. If they wanted to do their job they'd report on how this case went differently, what other reforms the public wants to see, and how those are progressing.

 

I don't think you can really call it a step back when this has always been happening, it's just finally brought to light because of the plethora of small/convenient cameras available. I mean cops beating, stealing from, and harassing the public has been a theme for centuries. We finally live in a time where there is hard evidence of it, and it's no longer their word against the victim's.

 

Having police prosecuted for murder is a huge step forward, but seeing the frequency of the attacks and the dishonesty of many police forces over the past dozen years does feel like a step back, especially if we realize it has been going on like this for years and it's cameras -- not internal discipline or basic human decency -- that have made the difference. You gotta think these cowboys have had a decade of cautionary examples to learn from, but the hits just keep coming. 

 

Yeah, the news is sensationalistic. Especially when there's graphic footage. That's like candy to 24/7 networks. If you watch long enough someone will talk about reform and context, but I don't have that kind of time for CNN either. 

[JJ Husker]

3 hours ago, ZRod said:

I'm sure you're like me and personally know people who ran from the cops and weren't killed or beaten.

Sure but I don’t think teenage shenanigans in small town NE are quite the same thing.

 

I do know the 2 times I lipped off to the cops, 1 got me a ticket (which got thrown out in court) and the other I spent a few hours at LPD during my college years. I guess that’ll happen when you get a roadside sobriety test, ask the officer to demonstrate what he means by walking a line heel to toe, and then tell him he looks like a duck  Hey, I knew I was screwed anyways.

 

It was an eye opening experience at LPD on a Friday night. Some guy in lockup decided he was going to kick the s#!t out of a couple cops. Really bad idea in a police station. In short order it was 10-12 cops. Made the Rodney King deal look like a kindergarten scuffle. That happened about 20’ feet from where I was sitting.

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Having police prosecuted for murder is a huge step forward, but seeing the frequency of the attacks and the dishonesty of many police forces over the past dozen years does feel like a step back, especially if we realize it has been going on like this for years and it's cameras -- not internal discipline or basic human decency -- that have made the difference. You gotta think these cowboys have had a decade of cautionary examples to learn from, but the hits just keep coming. 

 

Yeah, the news is sensationalistic. Especially when there's graphic footage. That's like candy to 24/7 networks. If you watch long enough someone will talk about reform and context, but I don't have that kind of time for CNN either. 

I don’t think it’s as step back at all. There have always been dishonest cops.  It’s just easier to see them now.  

[Scarlet]

7 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Sure but I don’t think teenage shenanigans in small town NE are quite the same thing.

 

I do know the 2 times I lipped off to the cops, 1 got me a ticket (which got thrown out in court) and the other I spent a few hours at LPD during my college years. I guess that’ll happen when you get a roadside sobriety test, ask the officer to demonstrate what he means by walking a line heel to toe, and then tell him he looks like a duck  Hey, I knew I was screwed anyways.

 

It was an eye opening experience at LPD on a Friday night. Some guy in lockup decided he was going to kick the s#!t out of a couple cops. Really bad idea in a police station. In short order it was 10-12 cops. Made the Rodney King deal look like a kindergarten scuffle. That happened about 20’ feet from where I was sitting.

Maybe he couldn't comply. 

 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/77869102?utm_campaign=postshare_creator

 

Quote

He was given contradictory commands and kicked when he didn’t comply. But he couldn’t comply; that was the entire purpose. The officers are yelling commands, presumably in an attempt to cover for their heinous actions, while Tyre Nichols was the only one attempting to deescalate the situation.

 

I watched a number of the videos and unless I missed something the kid they murdered was the one trying to deescalate the situation until it became obvious his life was in serious danger.  So he ran.  This Scorpion unit is/was sketchy as f#&%.  Maybe Nichols knew just how sketchy.   This doesn't seem like a one-off to me.

[JJ Husker]

1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

Maybe he couldn't comply. 

 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/77869102?utm_campaign=postshare_creator

 

 

I watched a number of the videos and unless I missed something the kid they murdered was the one trying to deescalate the situation until it became obvious his life was in serious danger.  So he ran.  This Scorpion unit is/was sketchy as f#&%.  Maybe Nichols knew just how sketchy.   This doesn't seem like a one-off to me.

That’s a very good point that didn’t register with me until you pointed it out. He did seem to be getting contradictory instructions. That could make it possibly impossible to comply. Considering the cops obviously didn’t want to de-escalte, there’s a very good chance it was part of their sickening game.

[Guy Chamberlin]

21 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I don’t think it’s as step back at all. There have always been dishonest cops.  It’s just easier to see them now.  

 

Guess it's a glass half empty/half full kinda thing. No doubt there have always been racist and bully cops, and racial bias in everything from real estate to medical prescriptions, but I'm not sure most Americans knew how common it was until video cameras and uhm "woke" activists.  Thinking we should have come farther than this may not be a step backward, but it doesn't feel like a step forward just because policing bias  is out in the open. They've known this is wrong the whole time.