Police Reform

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Do you feel curfew enforcement should be part of police reform?  If so, it's on topic...but that wasn't expressed. 

5 police officers tackling what seems to aBe an unarmed peaceful person who happens to be out past curfew seems like those procedures could use reform 

[Enhance]

So just going off the video by itself, it does seem a bit aggressive for the initial reaction to be "I'm going to take this guy to the ground and swarm him."

 

The flip side to this is that the man willfully ignored police orders and appeared to be in violation of a curfew in place to help limit public gathering and the spread of COVID... so, more of a health-related curfew.

 

Police response should match the level of the crime, and we should respect individual human rights, but I'm also not going to get too bent out of shape about this situation.

[DevoHusker]

 

California police officers would have to be 25 or get bachelor’s degree under new proposal

 

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article247622645.html 

[Omaha-Husker]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

 

California police officers would have to be 25 or get bachelor’s degree under new proposal

 

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article247622645.html 

 

I go back and forth on this. A more educated police force certainly can't hurt, but this makes it more difficult for prospective recruits at lower socioeconomic levels.

 

I think something like an associates degree that is completed alongside the police training period and their first year on the job would be interesting. Specifically for Omaha I imagine Metro Community College putting together a curriculum based on community outreach, local history etc. Get your police schooling at the academy, but getting additional education that isn't controlled by the force to get a more rounded view of the city they will be policing.

[DevoHusker]

21 minutes ago, Omaha-Husker said:

 

I go back and forth on this. A more educated police force certainly can't hurt, but this makes it more difficult for prospective recruits at lower socioeconomic levels.

 

I think something like an associates degree that is completed alongside the police training period and their first year on the job would be interesting. Specifically for Omaha I imagine Metro Community College putting together a curriculum based on community outreach, local history etc. Get your police schooling at the academy, but getting additional education that isn't controlled by the force to get a more rounded view of the city they will be policing.

I too worry about this willowing out good candidates that might not otherwise be able to qualify.

 

I think you are definitely correct with your idea of a CC track to facilitate a curriculum that would work without having to complete a Bachelor's.

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, Omaha-Husker said:

 

I go back and forth on this. A more educated police force certainly can't hurt, but this makes it more difficult for prospective recruits at lower socioeconomic levels.

 

I think something like an associates degree that is completed alongside the police training period and their first year on the job would be interesting. Specifically for Omaha I imagine Metro Community College putting together a curriculum based on community outreach, local history etc. Get your police schooling at the academy, but getting additional education that isn't controlled by the force to get a more rounded view of the city they will be policing.

Very well put.  A criminal justice type degree with an emphasized focus on what your ideas were.  
 

I also agree that a four year degree probably isn’t necessary for most people who want to get into policing, but some more education couldn’t hurt.  CC could be the right fit.  

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

I agree with both of you on this.  However, I think promoted officers who are in charge of other officers should be required to have a 4 year degree.  Kind of like how a majority of VP/Director level positions in corporations require Masters to fill those roles. 

I kinda get that Blitz, but would the degree have to be in something specific or just a degree?  
 

I don’t think it makes sense to have just any type of degree as a qualifier.  Find a school that has a four year criminal justice degree that would require only two more years on top of the CC degree?  That what your thinking?  

[RedDenver]

I don't think a degree fixes any of the police issues with overreach, brutality, or racism.

[DevoHusker]

18 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I don't think a degree fixes any of the police issues with overreach, brutality, or racism.

 

What do you suggest to "fix" those issues?

[RedDenver]

20 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

What do you suggest to "fix" those issues?

Off the top of my head:

Limit or remove qualified immunity. A separate (probably federal) investigative branch for police issues (so the police aren't investigating themselves). A uniform code of police conduct similar to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additional resources/depts to deal with social and mental health issues.

 

I'm no expert and am open to any and all reform ideas. I just don't think getting a degree addresses any of the issues.

 

I haven't watched this yet, but conservative Cato Institute has a debate on police reform:

 

[RedDenver]

No-knock raids being eliminated also a good idea:

 

[DevoHusker]

58 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Off the top of my head:

Limit or remove qualified immunity. A separate (probably federal) investigative branch for police issues (so the police aren't investigating themselves). A uniform code of police conduct similar to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additional resources/depts to deal with social and mental health issues.

 

I'm no expert and am open to any and all reform ideas. I just don't think getting a degree addresses any of the issues.

 

I haven't watched this yet, but conservative Cato Institute has a debate on police reform:

 

 

I will definitely try to view this, thanks. I too would like to see some independent review board established, but adding another Federal group/committee/board does not seem to be the right step...not sure. I do like the Code of Justice idea. Adding something similar to a "court martial" for cops that may not break the law but cross the line. Regarding mental health, cops already get a lot of training on how to recognize and triage folks that are mentally broken. I do not personally think there is any way to train/educate to have better results. Mentally unstable people will do unstable/unpredictable things, especially when adding drugs to the mix,  regardless of training and response individual officers receive.  

 

Regarding qualified immunity, it was reviewed this June. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-qualified-immunity-police-accountability-law-2020-6

"The Supreme Court won't reexamine qualified immunity, the controversial legal doctrine that protects cops from misconduct lawsuits

Isaac Scher  Jun 15, 2020, 9:38 AM"

 

 

 

 

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Until this is removed, reform will never be successful.

 

Not being held accountable for ones own actions is not a good base to build from.  I understand it protects a lot of police and does good in some cases...but it's not often removed from a police officer when they are wrong.  In other words, even if they are fault...they get away with whatever it is they did.  This breeds a poor attitude toward cops, mistrust on both sides, and an attitude of superiority/untouchable attitude within the police force that is a disservice to the community they are supposed to protect and serve.

 

 

Seems like there is a way to thread the needle on this to protect the good cops and allow the bad ones to be punished for their actions.   
 

I don’t understand the issue well enough to offer a solution, but there are some smart minds out there who can be listened to and help come up with a rational compromised solution. 

[Omaha-Husker]

22 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Off the top of my head:

Limit or remove qualified immunity. A separate (probably federal) investigative branch for police issues (so the police aren't investigating themselves). A uniform code of police conduct similar to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additional resources/depts to deal with social and mental health issues.

 

I'm no expert and am open to any and all reform ideas. I just don't think getting a degree addresses any of the issues.

 

I haven't watched this yet, but conservative Cato Institute has a debate on police reform:

 

 

I didn't mean to suggest that getting a degree is some instant solution to the problems with the police, I am just generally pro a more educated population. I support all of those things that you stated along with ending civil asset forfeiture, ending no knock warrants, more body cameras and I would like to see police departments being liable for settlement payouts rather than cities. Make it hit their wallet when there is police misconduct rather than the tax payers, when its your budget or union's insurance or pension fund taking the hit rather than the city there would ideally be more internal accountability. A combination of a number of things is needed.

[DevoHusker]

8 minutes ago, Omaha-Husker said:

 

I didn't mean to suggest that getting a degree is some instant solution to the problems with the police, I am just generally pro a more educated population. I support all of those things that you stated along with ending civil asset forfeiture, ending no knock warrants, more body cameras and I would like to see police departments being liable for settlement payouts rather than cities. Make it hit their wallet when there is police misconduct rather than the tax payers, when its your budget or union's insurance or pension fund taking the hit rather than the city there would ideally be more internal accountability. A combination of a number of things is needed.

 

Municipal police departments are City entities. They do not have their "own" money. It is all City budget thus tax payers.