The Athletic: Nebraska’s biggest preseason question - Can substance rise above style?

[Guy Chamberlin]

30 minutes ago, hunter49 said:

 

agree with all your points.  play in the Big is not for everyone, this is a very, very physical league.

 

It's still football, and it's always physical. I think too much gets made about the Big 10 playing a special brand of power football. Big strong lineman are valued in every conference, and Big 10 teams operate the same run/pass ratio as most other teams.

 

Alabama and Ohio State have had a great run for the last decade or so, but the Big 10 doesn't fare better against other conferences head to head --- and has a history of problems with speedy and clever Pac 12 teams, especially in bowl games. So you recruit big nasty lineman and the best skill players available because that's what works best in every league. 

 

In the transition from the Big 12 to the Big 10, Nebraska went from a four loss team to a four loss team. 

[Danny Bateman]

4 hours ago, Undone said:

Strength & conditioning under Bo was actually pretty good. I'm choosing the words "pretty good" carefully - so, not "great" but also not "bad."

Then Riley not only didn't bring in quality linemen on both sides of the ball but practically abandoned serious weight training, at least as far as I understand it. 

 

Outside of Ohio State's insane evolution to a completely other level, the rest of the decent-good teams (outside of Indiana) still play power football on both sides of the ball. In our division, Wisconsin & Iowa consistently develop strong offensive linemen, defensive linemen, and linebackers.

Until we get our big guys strong again - really big & strong - we will continue to suck in the B1G. This is foundational, and it doesn't get fixed in just two seasons.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Not to pick on Jake Cotton too much in particular, but I'll always have some image I saw of him back in the Bo days emblazoned in my mind as an example of our lineman carrying a bit too much bad weight. But to be fair, they typically performed at a higher level back then, as well.

 

Overall, well said. It's hard to understand the importance of lineman, or how badly Riley screwed the pooch there. Not only did he screw up S&C, his recruiting overall in that area was atrocious to the point where ScoFro had to restock the cupboard, so to speak, his first couple yars.

 

I'm of the mind the "basketball on grass" system could still work in the Big 10. It's not all that dissimilar to what tOSU runs. They just always have kickass power running-backs, mobile QBs with excellent arm talent and OL talent and depth that is unrivaled outside of a handful of teams in the SEC.

 

All that said, if we want to continue to run a UCF-esque offense here, the OL has to get straightened out. But that's the case for any offense we run.

[Undone]

36 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's still football, and it's always physical. I think too much gets made about the Big 10 playing a special brand of power football. Big strong lineman are valued in every conference, and Big 10 teams operate the same run/pass ratio as most other teams.

 

Just food for thought: I remember Darrion Daniels giving an interview last summer where he said that at Oklahoma State, they did hardly any weight training at all and mainly did conditioning. It was inferred that this was because of more of the spread offense style of the Big 12.

 

I should actually dig up that clip, it's really interesting. Duval loaded up a barbell for him to do squats and said "do a set of 10" or something like that, and he said the amount of weight on that bar was more he had ever put on his shoulders.

[Undone]

1 minute ago, Danny Bateman said:

I'm of the mind the "basketball on grass" system could still work in the Big 10. It's not all that dissimilar to what tOSU runs. They just always have kickass power running-backs, mobile QBs with excellent arm talent and OL talent and depth that is unrivaled outside of a handful of teams in the SEC.

 

All that said, if we want to continue to run a UCF-esque offense here, the OL has to get straightened out. But that's the case for any offense we run.

 

Yes, agreed. I think any offensive style can work in any conference. It's just that in the Big 10, there's such a huge emphasis on strength training that even Minnesota's defensive linemen were pancaking our O-linemen last season.

We had multiple games where our offensive game plan was dead in the water from the start because of how bad we got pushed around.

[Danny Bateman]

11 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Yes, agreed. I think any offensive style can work in any conference. It's just that in the Big 10, there's such a huge emphasis on strength training that even Minnesota's defensive linemen were pancaking our O-linemen last season.

We had multiple games where our offensive game plan was dead in the water from the start because of how bad we got pushed around.

 

Yep. I think it was somewhat unavoidable given the situation Frost walked into, sadly. We just didn't have the dogs needed to compete.

 

The good news is he has diagnosed the problem and appears to be rectifying it in a way Riley never did. Duval seems like he's doing a great job thus far and Scott is prioritizing OL recruiting.

[Landlord]

44 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

In the transition from the Big 12 to the Big 10, Nebraska went from a four loss team to a four loss team. 

 

We went from a 4 loss team inches away from two conference championships and not getting blown out to a 4 loss team finishing  3rd/4th in our division, losing a championship game by 40 points and setting NCAA records for abysmal defensive performance.

[84HuskerLaw]

45 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's still football, and it's always physical. I think too much gets made about the Big 10 playing a special brand of power football. Big strong lineman are valued in every conference, and Big 10 teams operate the same run/pass ratio as most other teams.

 

Alabama and Ohio State have had a great run for the last decade or so, but the Big 10 doesn't fare better against other conferences head to head --- and has a history of problems with speedy and clever Pac 12 teams, especially in bowl games. So you recruit big nasty lineman and the best skill players available because that's what works best in every league. 

 

In the transition from the Big 12 to the Big 10, Nebraska went from a four loss team to a four loss team. 

Except at time we moved, the Big 12 was a better league than the Big Ten.  It has switched, partly due to our switch, which gave the Big Ten an image boost while the Big 12 slipped down noticeably.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, Landlord said:

 

We went from a 4 loss team inches away from two conference championships and not getting blown out to a 4 loss team finishing  3rd/4th in our division, losing a championship game by 40 points and setting NCAA records for abysmal defensive performance.

 

In Nebraska's second year in the Big 10, we entered the Conference Championship at 10-2, playing an 8-5 team we'd already beaten, with a Rose Bowl berth and Top 10 ranking on the line. 

 

Kansas State, Oklahoma, and Texas finished that year the Top 20. Wisconsin remained unranked. They even lost to Mike Riley's Oregon State that year. 

 

The Husker defense definitely started trending south after 2010 (after 2009, really) but you might chalk that up to the quality of defensive recruits rather than conference strength.  There were probably more dangerous teams top to bottom in the Big 12 than the Big 10 at the time. Nebraska came into the league at the perfect moment, but couldn't capitalize. 

[Landlord]

12 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

In Nebraska's second year in the Big 10, we entered the Conference Championship at 10-2, playing an 8-5 team we'd already beaten, with a Rose Bowl berth and Top 10 ranking on the line. 

 

Kansas State, Oklahoma, and Texas finished that year the Top 20. Wisconsin remained unranked. They even lost to Mike Riley's Oregon State that year. 

 

The Husker defense definitely started trending south after 2010 (after 2009, really) but you might chalk that up to the quality of defensive recruits rather than conference strength.  There were probably more dangerous teams top to bottom in the Big 12 than the Big 10 at the time. Nebraska came into the league at the perfect moment, but couldn't capitalize. 

 

 

Not sure what you're getting at in your first bit other than the conference was bad that year.

 

The bolded is an important point to mention, especially since it's impossible to extrapolate the worsening talent and the period of time in which we changed conferences.

 

But the Big 10 was also unusually down then (the original point being that usually the B1G is a step above). It was somewhat of an anomaly. Yes, Bo maintained 4 losses consistently, but we got Ohio State in their only losing season since the dinosaurs, we got Michigan in one of their worst stretches ever, we got Penn State in theirs, we got Wisconsin in their worst year of the last decade, etc. 

 

I'd change your last sentence to read Nebraska came into the league at the perfect moment, and Bo Pelini capitalized perfectly by being lucky enough to continue having the same W-L records. If Bo enters the B1G in 2015 there's zero chance we'd still go 9-4.

[TheSker]

The number of Husker players from the 2017 team that would start on the 2017 UCF team is approximately zero.

[Undone]

3 hours ago, Landlord said:

I'd change your last sentence to read Nebraska came into the league at the perfect moment, and Bo Pelini capitalized perfectly by being lucky enough to continue having the same W-L records. If Bo enters the B1G in 2015 there's zero chance we'd still go 9-4.

 

This is good stuff. Pretty interesting to ponder.

[Undone]

32 minutes ago, TheSker said:

The number of Husker players from the 2017 team that would start on the 2017 UCF team is approximately zero.

 

On the entire roster? That statement seems like a massive stretch...

[JJ Husker]

9 hours ago, teachercd said:

Let me do the story

 

Did NU make a mistake in firing Frank, yes.  Did they make a mistake in hiring BC, yes, should they have fired BC, actually maybe not, did they make a mistake in hiring Bo, no, did they make a mistake in firing him, yes.  Did they make a mistake in hiring Riley, yes, did they make a mistake in firing him, no.

 

Now, if you read that would you please venmo me 3 dollars.

I’ll have my daughter Venmo you. I’m too old for that crap.

 

But here’s the $5 take.

Mistake firing Frank? No, just bad timing and a little late.

Mistake hiring BC? Yeah, duh.

Mistake firing BC? Nope.

Mistake hiring Bo? Nope.

Mistake firing Bo. Nope, it was time.

Mike Riley? Big mistake, on par with Callahan.

Short version, the firings have been pretty spot on. It’s the hires that have lacked. If those had been better the dismissals wouldn’t have been needed.
 

Gawd I promised myself I’d never go down this heavily travelled road again. I’m sorry.

Actually just Venmo me $2 and we’ll call it even.

[TheSker]

8 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

On the entire roster? That statement seems like a massive stretch...

Massive?

 

Compare the NFL draft picks of UCF from 2017 to 2019 to Nebraska.....

 

UCF was extremely talented compared to Nebraska.  Extremely.

[Toe]

19 minutes ago, Undone said:

On the entire roster? That statement seems like a massive stretch...

 

Something I think a lot of people forget is that while Frost might have taken over a winless team at UCF, they were only a couple years removed from a Fiesta Bowl-winning team that finished in the top ten. The cupboard was already well stocked when Frost came in, and I don't think they had near the attrition there as when Frost came here.