Offensive Play Discussion - 2020

[hskrfan4life]

20 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

We had 100 more yards than NW and fewer penalty yards.

 

But this week’s practice better be 100% red zone offense. 

 

 

Also, is everyone blaming Lubick because they don’t want to blame Frost? I thought Frost still called the plays. I could be wrong. 

Pretty sure Frost still calls the plays. And I'm blaming frost. Playcalling was questionable all day.

[Undone]

27 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

We had 100 more yards than NW and fewer penalty yards.

 

But this week’s practice better be 100% red zone offense. 

 

 

Also, is everyone blaming Lubick because they don’t want to blame Frost? I thought Frost still called the plays. I could be wrong. 

 

I am 100% blaming Frost.

[Undone]

We'll be lucky to even win two games this year and I don't know why I even bother dissecting our problems...but it's probably a coping mechanism.

 

Mills is an underrated part of the problem. He doesn't slice through the line quickly at all, and runs that should be 8-12 yard gainers are 5-6 yard gains.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think the swing passes may be our only hope next week. The key is selling them with a head fake. We just need a QB that can do that...

[ndobney]

7 hours ago, hskrfan4life said:

Pretty sure Frost still calls the plays. And I'm blaming frost. Playcalling was questionable all day.

I've said this before and have been ignored. I wonder if people are actually even reading these threads. The way to fix our red zone issues that have been an issue for a long time and is generally an issue for most spread teams is to go into the old school power I option attack. 

This does several things. Its a good red zone offense. It pounds the defense. Controls the clock. Fans love it. It controls the ball. Everything basically we are not doing that we should be.

Scott Frost said he wants it to be part of our identity. Teams should know and need to prepare for when we get to the red zone the triple option is coming.

[Undone]

8 hours ago, ndobney said:

Fans love it.

 

I love anything that will win games right now. I seriously couldn't give two f**** about nostalgia for Osborne's formations at this point.

 

8 hours ago, ndobney said:

Scott Frost said he wants it to be part of our identity.

 

He said running out of the 'Power I' was something he wanted to be part of our identity? I don't recall that but am not saying you're wrong - do you have a reference for where he said that? Genuinely curious.

[PaulCrewe]

Frost doesn't have to scrap his whole offensive philosophy for the Power I triple option like some fans want to return too.  However there are times when you have to line up in a power formation, draw a line in the sand, and tell your team let's see who has the bigger manhood and who can get a couple of yards.  Most coaches that run spread offenses still use the power game in goal line and short yardage situations.  It reared it's ugly head yesterday, and has in the past(last year at Purdue comes first to mind).  It falls back to lack of identity and the "no fear of failure" mantra that we hear every week.  Talk a big game about strength training gains and then once again show a fear of proving said gains in game situations that ultimately cost the team in crucial times.

[Scarlet]

I need to go back and watch again but live it seemed to me a huge problem is Martinez's read on the zone read.  I recall early at least two plays where the d-end was diving down hard on Mills and AM had the entire field open but he gives to Mills.  It was like NW had something tipped off in film study.  Anyway stuffed for little or no gain.

 

So if that is going on with something as easy to read as an RPO or zone read what's going on with more complex plays?  Tough to tell live.  I think the physical talent is there but the situational awareness is abysmal.  You need a QB who knows how to be patient, let the yards come to him, and just move the chains when needed.  

 

Of course we may seen the last of AM but I'm really having my doubts about the QB whisperer right now as Luke can look hit and miss too

 

[Undone]

12 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

I need to go back and watch again but live it seemed to me a huge problem is Martinez's read on the zone read.  I recall early at least two plays where the d-end was diving down hard on Mills and AM had the entire field open but he gives to Mills.  It was like NW had something tipped off in film study.  Anyway stuffed for little or no gain.

 

I noticed that also. The weird thing about it is that in the first half against OSU he made all of the right reads on keepers. Unlucky.

[Stumpy1]

48 minutes ago, PaulCrewe said:

Talk a big game about strength training gains and then once again show a fear of proving said gains in game situations that ultimately cost the team in crucial times.

Duval needs to focus on other things besides squats if we want to improve on the S&C side of things.  We are weak up top and it shows. 

[desertshox]

52 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

I need to go back and watch again but live it seemed to me a huge problem is Martinez's read on the zone read.  I recall early at least two plays where the d-end was diving down hard on Mills and AM had the entire field open but he gives to Mills.  It was like NW had something tipped off in film study.  Anyway stuffed for little or no gain.

 

So if that is going on with something as easy to read as an RPO or zone read what's going on with more complex plays?  Tough to tell live.  I think the physical talent is there but the situational awareness is abysmal.  You need a QB who knows how to be patient, let the yards come to him, and just move the chains when needed.  

 

Of course we may seen the last of AM but I'm really having my doubts about the QB whisperer right now as Luke can look hit and miss too

 

 

Think it was in the 2nd quarter that one of the announcers said NW was keying on mills and not even respecting AM's running ability.

[krc1995]

1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

I need to go back and watch again but live it seemed to me a huge problem is Martinez's read on the zone read.  I recall early at least two plays where the d-end was diving down hard on Mills and AM had the entire field open but he gives to Mills.  It was like NW had something tipped off in film study.  Anyway stuffed for little or no gain.

 

So if that is going on with something as easy to read as an RPO or zone read what's going on with more complex plays?  Tough to tell live.  I think the physical talent is there but the situational awareness is abysmal.  You need a QB who knows how to be patient, let the yards come to him, and just move the chains when needed.  

 

Of course we may seen the last of AM but I'm really having my doubts about the QB whisperer right now as Luke can look hit and miss too

 

I agree. Let’s say both are similar in athletic skills.  Luke looks far more decisive and wins the football IQ category. 
 

but he throw pics and fumbles too. Maybe we need to develop more of a set power run game? Do we not have the line for that? It’s like the running game comes out of busted pass first plays or tricky cutesy mis-direction disguise plays. I’m talking over my head now, but whatever the offensive design is, I don’t think it works for either QB 

[Scarlet]

32 minutes ago, desertshox said:

 

Think it was in the 2nd quarter that one of the announcers said NW was keying on mills and not even respecting AM's running ability.

I agree that they were keying on the give but I think it's more AM's unwillingness to run it more often then his inability.  I gave him a pass last year because he looked less than 100% physically.  The kid can run effectively enough so it's interesting to speculate why or how NW was able to know he wouldn't..at least early on.  Who knows, maybe they ran some data, and started seeing some situational trends and they played the odds.  Either that or there is some oline keys going on. But that would mean it's not a true read option.

[RedDenver]

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion right now, but I think the offense is improving. Not as much as any of us would like, but we've been sorely lacking talent for years. The OL is best it's been in at least 4 or 5 years, WR talent is finally on the team but extremely young still, TE has talent both blocking and receiving (with Stoll we'd be even better). RB looks mediocre still. And QB, the most important position on the team and definitely on offense, is unsettled.

 

AM has skills but he looks indecisive and doesn't throw accurately. LM looks like he's taken over as the starter, and while I think he looks better, I want to see a few starts under his belt before declaring him better than AM.

 

As for the play calling, I thought there were some questionable calls but overall thought it was fine. Not having our starting center hurt us in short yardage more than the playcalling IMO.

 

My take is that we're on the verge of finally putting it together on offense, and we've played what look like some pretty good defenses in tOSU and NW. Maybe LM is the final piece for this offense, but I think we need some more talent and for the young talent to develop.

[knapplc]

 

The problem is quite clearly Red Zone offense. When the defense is condensed we don't have the people or the play calling to finish.

 

Finish two of those five drives that ended in zero points and we beat Northwestern.

 

[Mavric]

12 hours ago, ndobney said:

I've said this before and have been ignored. I wonder if people are actually even reading these threads. The way to fix our red zone issues that have been an issue for a long time and is generally an issue for most spread teams is to go into the old school power I option attack. 

This does several things. Its a good red zone offense. It pounds the defense. Controls the clock. Fans love it. It controls the ball. Everything basically we are not doing that we should be.

Scott Frost said he wants it to be part of our identity. Teams should know and need to prepare for when we get to the red zone the triple option is coming.

 

That would be exactly backwards.  Our problem is we are not good are running power football.  I thought we looked better last week but not so much. 

 

Our distribution of touches is absolutely terrible.  The thing we did the most of yesterday was let Dedrick Mills run the ball (19 carries).  That was the least efficient thing we did (3.1 ypc).  Even if you increase that efficiency by 50% that would still be the least effective thing we did on the day.  Yet for some reason we kept trying.  The second least effective thing we did on the day?  Throw the ball to Dedrick Mills (5.5 yards per catch).  Yet he had the most catches.

 

Dedrick Mills had 25 touches - nearly 30% of our offensive plays - and he was the least efficient with them at 3.6 yards per touch.  Wan'Dale averaged 8.0 ypt and got 4 touches.  Marvin Scott - playing the same position as Mills - averaged 4.7 ypc.  None of the other receivers averaged less than 6.0 ypc.  

 

No idea why we insisted on doing more of the worst thing we were doing.  But this is where that gets you.