***** Official Election Game Day Thread *****

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Oh, but you had free time for the above comment.

 

 

 

 

Bah. You got me. I hate Joe Biden.

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It's weird how you try to empathize with Black people when reading this because there's a small chance they may think it's patronizing, but at no other time, like when they are claiming there is systematic racism.

 

 

I don't think systematic racism doesn't exist on some level, I just think that a decent amount of the issues that plague the black communities are self-inflicted. If systematic racism was the 'only' thing holding them back, then the system is failing, because there sure are a lot of blacks falling through the cracks, and succeeding in this country.... But we've all been down that road too often on this board, and I don't want to go down it again. We know how each other feel about it at this point.

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I don't think systematic racism doesn't exist on some level, I just think that a decent amount of the issues that plague the black communities are self-inflicted. If systematic racism was the 'only' thing holding them back, then the system is failing, because there sure are a lot of blacks falling through the cracks, and succeeding in this country.... But we've all been down that road too often on this board, and I don't want to go down it again. We know how each other feel about it at this point.

 

 

An example of something you would see if systematic racism exists, just throwing out #s here, is 40% of Whites in the lowest SES move up, but 20% of Blacks in the lowest SES move up. It doesn't mean it's not possible to succeed if you're Black. It means it is more difficult to succeed. This is another case of not knowing what anecdotes can and cannot prove. Your anecdote only proves wrong the statement that Blacks can't make it in America, which no one is saying. It is just more difficult and the data shows it.

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

An example of something you would see if systematic racism exists, just throwing out #s here, is 40% of Whites in the lowest SES move up, but 20% of Blacks in the lowest SES move up. It doesn't mean it's not possible to succeed if you're Black. It means it is more difficult to succeed. This is another case of not knowing what anecdotes can and cannot prove. Your anecdote only proves wrong the statement that Blacks can't make it in America, which no one is saying. It is just more difficult and the data shows it.

 

You think that has more to do with a "system" being designed against them, I think it has more to do with poor indiviual/family decisions, that possibly span generations. You see it in White Appalachia too. I think culture plays a huge role. In both white dominated Appalachia, and the inner cities.

[Moiraine]

20 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

You think that has more to do with a "system" being designed against them, I think it has more to do with poor indiviual/family decisions, that possibly span generations. You see it in White Appalachia too. I think culture plays a huge role. In both white dominated Appalachia, and the inner cities.

 

 

It's insane that you are talking about family decisions that span generations while talking about Blacks. I'm in my 30s. Black people my mom's age were segregated in their 20s. That's 1 generation back. And separate but equal never was close to equal. You put way too little stock in this s#!t.

[knapplc]

33 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

 

I don't think systematic racism doesn't exist on some level, I just think that a decent amount of the issues that plague the black communities are self-inflicted. If systematic racism was the 'only' thing holding them back, then the system is failing, because there sure are a lot of blacks falling through the cracks, and succeeding in this country.... But we've all been down that road too often on this board, and I don't want to go down it again. We know how each other feel about it at this point.

 

 

Empathy isn't for everyone.

 

[Moiraine]

10 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Empathy isn't for everyone.

 

 

It isn't for a lot of people, which is why so many people don't believe Blacks when they actually have the courage to speak up about things that are s#!tty, and sometimes actively attack them.

[B.B. Hemingway]

4 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It's insane that you are talking about family decisions that span generations while talking about Blacks. I'm in my 30s. Black people my mom's age were segregated in their 20s. That's 1 generation back. And separate but equal never was close to equal. You put way too little stock in this s#!t.

 

Segregation ended a little over two generations ago, but I hear your point. Again, I'm not denying it's existence, I just don't think it's beneficial to send the message "you can't succeed in America without the help of the Democratic party".... They most certainly can.  And it's asinine to insist that personal decision making doesn't play any kind of role. Of course it does. 

The 60's weren't that long ago, but the country has come a long way.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Segregation ended a little over two generations ago, but I hear your point. Again, I'm not denying it's existence, I just don't think it's beneficial to send the message "you can't succeed in America without the help of the Democratic party".... They most certainly can.  And it's asinine to insist that personal decision making doesn't play any kind of role. Of course it does. 

The 60's weren't that long ago, but the country has come a long way.

 

 

The straw men you're arguing against aren't the reality this country faces, and that so many people buy into this caricature of reality is why we still have these problems today. 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It isn't for a lot of people, which is why so many people don't believe Blacks when they actually have the courage to speak up about things that are s#!tty, and sometimes actively attack them.

 

It isn't a lack of empathy. I empathize with the black person's plight. I just think there's a lot they could do within their communities to help themselves. You see more and more prominent black people acknowledging this. Charles Barkley comes to mind.

[Moiraine]

7 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Segregation ended a little over two generations ago, but I hear your point. Again, I'm not denying it's existence, I just don't think it's beneficial to send the message "you can't succeed in America without the help of the Democratic party".... They most certainly can.  And it's asinine to insist that personal decision making doesn't play any kind of role. Of course it does. 

The 60's weren't that long ago, but the country has come a long way.

 

 

As knapp is saying, no one is arguing personal decision don't play a role. Of course they do. That's why as you mentioned earlier there are examples (lots in fact) of Blacks succeeding. They are just starting off with a systematic disadvantage.

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

 

The straw men you're arguing against aren't the reality this country faces, and that so many people buy into this caricature of reality is why we still have these problems today. 

 

 

The avoidance of all accountability goes against everything we're taught growing up. 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

As knapp is saying, no one is arguing personal decision don't play a role. Of course they do. That's why as you mentioned earlier there are examples (lots in fact) of Blacks succeeding. They are just starting off with a systematic disadvantage.

 

And I truly hope those disadvantages are eliminated. I really do. But, even when/if they are, I think there will be some culture issues standing in the way. 

[commando]

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

And I truly hope those disadvantages are eliminated. I really do.

 

Oh, it shows. It shines right through every time someone brings up systemic disadvantages against POC.